New PSd Team

[firefrog]

I am with Bridgediver on this I just finished the Life Guard Systems Training this last weekend . I am part of a psd team and we are changing alot of things to go along with what we learned at LGS . They would be more then happy to chat with anyone on how to set up or what to use to get started . I will say that they do have there own line of equipment to sell but for the most part it is all about your training and how to make sure you come home from every call out .

 

[shaneevans1]

FireFrog, and everybody else that is interested...
We are in a similar position as the thread starter. We are, however lucky enough to have a couple of highly motivated, well trained, and experienced divers ready to participate.
The three divers I speak of are now limited to their own open circuit scuba gear, with the only gear the dept owns are 4 tanks.
This all changed in the last several months, with the dept expressing a willingness to gear up a professional, safe dive team. Much money has been spent on training with an emphasis on rescue, 02 delivery, first aid, overhead environments, and black water.
A psd course taught by a lifetime commercial diver / psd volunteer / psd instuctor is imminent.
He has recommended the following for startup gear basics:
harness tether - one diver down at a time.
scuba in still water of tolerable temps.
superlite 17 in currents and cold water on comm box and in drysuits.
Contaminated water dictates superlite and rubber drysuits.

That said, I questioned him at length about the AGA masks as I had recently got to try one out, and loved it. He said that "if its so bad you cant use your regular scuba gear then you should be in a helmet anyway, so why spend the extra money.

Our area is either 3-8 foot vis closed water lakes and ponds, or
well, the lower mississippi river, and shallow rivers with the occasional 20-30 hole behind downed trees with bad eddys.

I was just looking for input on the scuba - helmeted surface supplied vs scuba - AGA - helmet discussion.

Thanks for anybodys input.
Shane

Oops, firefrog, what did they at lgs recommend?
Thanks!

 

[Saipanman]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not, in any way, a professional rescue diver. I am a recreational scuba instructor and I dive often (shallow and warm, with viz never lower than 40 feet).

I cannot fathom (no pun intended) that a bunch of uncertified (one certified, hasn't been in the water for 10 years) are going to be whipped into shape enough to safely search murky/fast water anytime soon. Like, maybe, not until the end of 2006?

This is not meant as a slam on your dedication or professionalism. I certainly respect your willingness to risk your life to save the likes of me. But please seriously think and rethink this plan. The rest of you aren't even OW certified? I know I'm not you, and I don't know you, but consider this: I have over 300 logged dives spread over oceans and lakes on various continents (more unlogged) and I wouldn't dream of calling myself ready to go out and search/recover professionally.

Please remember that the water in which you will be searching has already most likely killed whomever it is you will be searching for. The water won't care if you're next...

Best of luck, and feel free to prove me wrong. I'm an opinionated blowhard, but I also can admit when I'm whipped.

 

[bridgediver]

That said, I questioned him at length about the AGA masks as I had recently got to try one out, and loved it. He said that "if its so bad you can use your regular scuba gear then you should be in a helmet anyway, so why spend the extra money.

Our area is either 3-8 foot vis closed water lakes and ponds, or
well, the lower mississippi river, and shallow rivers with the occasional 20-30 hole behind downed trees with bad eddys.

I was just looking for input on the scuba - helmeted surface supplied vs scuba - AGA - helmet discussion.

Thanks for anybodys input.
Shane

Oops, firefrog, what did they at lgs recommend?
Thanks!

Interesting that he might tell you this. I'm simpilifying this quite a bit but the general rule of thumb (lgs) is if it is unknown if a water source is contaminated, as most are, fully encapsulating exposure protection (rubber suit with dry gloves) with a FFM is sufficient. If you wouldn't let your dog swim in the water or if the ducks have 3 feet then I'd say yeah a helmet is the way to go BUT... There is a HUGE difference between hard hats/surface supply and FFM/scuba.
Helmets will cost you at least 10 times as much with all things considered and the training is significantly more. If your only capibility is surface supplied then the time of deployment will virtually exclude you from running in any type of rescue mode. Scuba is fast and highly portable. You'll be looking at an annual budget in the 100's of thousands to run a good team of hardhat surface supplied with all the support they require.
You'll need to clearly define your role. What is the primary purpose of the team - rescue, recovery, evidence searches, all 3? What water is potentially contaminated and what water IS contaminated? Which ones are you most likely to enter? How frequently? Should you exclude certain bodies of water from your reponse area or limit your response? Does the extra costs of the hard hats justify the need?

It sounds like this guy is more of a commercial dive trainer? If so, he'll naturally be looking at it from that point of view - PSD is not like commercial diving. I'd advise seeking other opinions and be cautious of this approach. Get in touch with the team at LGS, they've been doing this a long time and I haven't found any gaps in thier system (I've looked at a few different ones).

I would also strongly advise against training a brand new team in overhead. Baby steps! Take a few years and build a strong foundation before you get into that.

 

[shaneevans1]

Bridgediver, thanks for your reply.
We do have some contaminated water in our area. We are not going to get in it. We have a VideoRay ROV with a seasprite sonar on it. We are in an industrial area and have a large refinery in our jurisdiction. They have several large cooling ponds, on the property, we are not going to get in it.
I agree that scuba is a much faster, cheaper response alternative. My recommendation to my dept is going to be AGA with comms on Scuba for starters.
The commercial diver I spoke of also owns a LDS and has done PSD as a reserve/volunteer for a long time. He also has a helmet for sale. I think that the AGA does give you a more versatile system all around.
Hooded drysuits are on the list as well.
Thanks for your input.

Anybody have any experience with cave diving helmets with AGA masks? The British seem to use them regularly, but I wonder about how they are rigged so they dont prevent you from ditching the mask. Anybody?

 

[firefrog]

Sorry it took me so long to get back with you on this subject . LGS seems to lean toward the AGA mask for the reasons listed by others on this board . That is all we use on our team , since Im new to this board and not sure how it works on here I wont give the website . Dont want to make any admins mad just google life guard systems and it will give you the site....... Hope this helps you .....fire frog

 

[BladesRobinson]

Sorry I am late weighing in on this topic but for those who are interested, here it goes...

AQUA LUNG offers special pricing to public safety dive teams through the local Aqua Lung Dealer network. For information on the special pricing program or to locate a local Aqua Lung Dealer, please visit:
http://www.aqualung.com/military/public_safety.html

(No, I am not an Aqua Lung Dealer. Our department uses the gear and we've been pleased)

AQUA LUNG also distributes Apeks Regulators, Sea Quest BCs and Suunto Dive Computers so the special pricing program applies to these items too!

Our department also uses Viking Dry Suits, AGA Full Face Masks and U/W Comm Systems from OTS.

To view this equipment or to obtain competitive bid pricing for your agency, please visit the DIVE RESCUE INTERNATIONAL webpage at:
http://www.diverescueintl.com/catalog.html

Best of luck!

Blades Robinson


PS - I was able to attach the 2005 Aqua Lung PSD information. It takes a few moments to download but may halp you as it relates to budgeting gear for 2006.

 

[Bob3]

Another vote for Lifeguard Systems, for the type of conditions you have in your area, their "style" of diving will be more appropriate.
Once you get a bit more familiar with things you'll "probably" want to be using either AGA or the Poseidon Atmosphere (both designed by the same guy).
Hardwire comms are less expensive & more reliable. Computers OK but the tenders will still have to follow the USN tables or OSHA may frown, having the PSD exemption yanked can be a bummer.
Vulcanized suits w/attached hoods are standard dress of the day, please use Vikings, for obvious reasons.