New to video...where to start?

[Dee]

After a few tips from the guys on DDN and our own sjspeck, I've done a little homework and started learning this whoile new language!

As background, Beast has been wanting a video camera for years and I guess it's time to start looking into them. He doesn't need or want a super fancy camcorder but I don't think a cheap one is worth the $$ either. He has no interest in extensive editing, however our friend Nick has offered to do the editing for him. So from my research so far, what I'm looking for, I think, is a Sony MiniDV. The exact model is still in question. We can't afford camera and housing at this time so the housing will have to wait. I'm hoping we can get one with electronic controls but I know we're talking big bucks.

We have a friend, Nick, who has an old Amphibico Dive Buddy housing that need the wires replaced, one of them somehow got crimped. He's offered to split the repair cost with us and give us the housing if we'll allow him to use it as back-up to his if needed. My delima is IF the housing can be repaired, it's still a 10+ year old housing and we'll be restricted to using one of various DCR-TRV model camcorders. I haven't been able to find a single on for sale anywhere online so I'm assuming they are hard to find brand new.

Or should I go for one of the HC models and hope to afford a decent housing in the future? The HC65 or maybe the HC85 is in the upper range of our budget.

Any thoughts, ideas, or tips? Steve's video links have helped tremendously in my research but the more I read the more confused I get!

 

[H2O Photo Pros]

First Dee, let me welcome you to the underwater video realm.

Now, I have a few questions for you so that I can better help you. First, do you plan on using this camera on land? Would you like the capability to at least be able to take decent still snap shots while you are shooting video? And lastly, is the size of the housing a factor?

The two video systems that I recommend for you, and my customers have been quite happy with are the HC40 (42) and the PC350. Both are nice compact cameras with fairly compact and reasonable housings available. The HC40 in the Light and Motion Stingray III housing is a nice combo. For the PC350, i recommend either the Mako housing from L&M or the Gates housing. Both are fairly compact, extremely durable and have excellent optics.

The PC350 takes some pretty good quality stills. I know you already have a still camera, but if you just had this camera on a dive and wanted a nice, printable still, the PC350 would do the trick. I also really like the way the camera comfortably sits in your palm when using it above water.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. One thing I tell everyone is that it is better to do it right the first time, even if it takes a little longer to complete your set up.

Best of luck,
Mike

 

[Dee]

First Dee, let me welcome you to the underwater video realm.

Now, I have a few questions for you so that I can better help you. First, do you plan on using this camera on land? Would you like the capability to at least be able to take decent still snap shots while you are shooting video? And lastly, is the size of the housing a factor?

Beast will be the one using it although I may eventually try my hand at it! Yes, size is definately a factor, both on land and eventually U/W. I don't think capturing still is a big factor since I have to C-5050. His goal is something small and easy to use. And of course cheap as we can go and still have something decent. I realize cheap and video is an oxymoron!

The two video systems that I recommend for you, and my customers have been quite happy with are the HC40 (42) and the PC350. Both are nice compact cameras with fairly compact and reasonable housings available. The HC40 in the Light and Motion Stingray III housing is a nice combo. For the PC350, i recommend either the Mako housing from L&M or the Gates housing. Both are fairly compact, extremely durable and have excellent optics.

I'm leaning more toward the HC40, 65 and 85 right now. The HC350 is a bit over our budget.

The PC350 takes some pretty good quality stills. I know you already have a still camera, but if you just had this camera on a dive and wanted a nice, printable still, the PC350 would do the trick. I also really like the way the camera comfortably sits in your palm when using it above water.

Again, stills aren't necessary. I think that's a feature he'd never use. But the palm size is definately a good thing.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. One thing I tell everyone is that it is better to do it right the first time, even if it takes a little longer to complete your set up.

I guess my main concern is the price of a housing with electronic controls later in the year. I like the size of the old Amphibico we're considering and the Top Dawg Mini. The Top Dawg has electronic controls, right? and it's only $850...IIRC.

Thanks for the help!

 

[ChrisA]

More random comment....

I think the way to go is to first pick ou the housing you like then get a camera that will fit inside of it. When choosing a housing one question to ask is "how do I see what I'm shooting?" Nest question is "how do the controls work? How easy are they to use and
what can be controlled'? The simpliest housing has no controls, you just turn on the camera, seal it up and jump in the water. Tape is cheap, or free if you re-use it so you just let it run.

For use underwater you don't need a lot of features on the camera. The housing may not even allow you to access them. The feature that matters the most is the CCD chip. How big is it (1/6 inch, 1/4 inch,...) and how many pixels does it have? Bigger is good. Larger chips are more sensitive to light. The housing may not even allow the camera's LCD screen to open so don't pay for a large sized LCD screen. Select a housing first.

Your Oly 5050 is a better still camera then any of the video cameras. You will not be happy with the quality of the still you capture with a mini DV.

One thing you really should do is use the camera on land. Use it a lot. If you can'r shoot video on land that other people will want to watch you will not be able to do it underwater where it is even harder.

You DO have to understand editing. Even if you have someone who will edit for you. If you don't understand the process you will not give him the footage he needs. Make some short movies on land to learn about it. You time under water is valuable, learn video on land.
The HC40 costs only two boat trips for the two of you. It's cheap

I did my research and bought a TRV-33. Just under $300 bt I think I bought the last one on Earth. The HC40 seems to be the replacement for it.

Beast will be the one using it although I may eventually try my hand at it! Yes, size is definately a factor, both on land and eventually U/W. I don't think capturing still is a big factor since I have to C-5050. His goal is something small and easy to use. And of course cheap as we can go and still have something decent. I realize cheap and video is an oxymoron!


I'm leaning more toward the HC40, 65 and 85 right now. The HC350 is a bit over our budget.



Again, stills aren't necessary. I think that's a feature he'd never use. But the palm size is definately a good thing.


I guess my main concern is the price of a housing with electronic controls later in the year. I like the size of the old Amphibico we're considering and the Top Dawg Mini. The Top Dawg has electronic controls, right? and it's only $850...IIRC.

Thanks for the help!

 

[ChrisA]

I guess my main concern is the price of a housing with electronic controls later in the year. I like the size of the old Amphibico we're considering and the Top Dawg Mini. The Top Dawg has electronic controls, right? and it's only $850...IIRC.

The Top Dawg Mini is nice. The good thing is that you can later upgrade the camera and keep the housing.

 

[drbill]

Agree on the Top Dawg housings. I have two of them and they work wth any of my three different Sony camcorders without changing settings, etc. They're made by Light & Motion (I do my repair work directly through them). Flat port so wide angle shooting is not really possible.

I use the TRV17 as my primary UW camcorder. It's a single chip, but produces results that have been very well-received by my audiences. You can get these cameras used or refurbed on E-Bay for $200-300. And you can always move up to a Sony 3-chip like the TRV950 later without buying a new housing. The housing itself appears there occasionally as well.

Dr. Bill

 

[Dee]

More random comment....
You DO have to understand editing. Even if you have someone who will edit for you. If you don't understand the process you will not give him the footage he needs. Make some short movies on land to learn about it. You time under water is valuable, learn video on land.
The HC40 costs only two boat trips for the two of you. It's cheap

I did my research and bought a TRV-33. Just under $300 bt I think I bought the last one on Earth. The HC40 seems to be the replacement for it.

Good point! And I totally agree about researching housings first, that's been the confusing part! I haven't had any luck finding a new TRV anything but someone did point my in the direction of a good used one, a TRV-18 on B&H for $279 so I ordered it this morning. IF the Amphibico housing can be repaired I know it will fit in it and work properly. If for some reason we can't use it, the TVR-18 will fit in a Top Dawg at a decent price.

Now on to all those pesky extras! A bigger/better battery is first on the list.

Thanks everyone for all your help and information....it was a tremendous help!

 

[diversteve]

Now on to all those pesky extras! A bigger/better battery is first on the list.

I'd wait till you see how the camera fits the housing before getting the battery. Some of the thickest aftermarket batteries - I think NP90 is one - are too thick for some housings. Or I guess you could ask your friend what he uses.

Steve

 

[Dee]

Or I guess you could ask your friend what he uses.

Nick uses a NP-QM71 battery in his with the same housing. The camcorder comes with a NP-QM30. You're right.....I think I read where the NP90 is the one that has a larger physical size.

Do I need a seperate battery charger or just charge it in the camera?

 

[Dee]

Dr. Bill....I'm glad I beat you to it!

Speaking of batteries....should I stick with Sony brand or are the off-brand equilivants OK? The Sony QM71's I'm finding are $99 but the off-brands are $30-45. One extra battery is enough...right?