No Morning Dive After Flight the Day Before with ProDive Mexico?!?

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Well well. I guess the situation wasn't represented exactly as it occurred based on prodive's response and the chat history.

Still, the rule seems odd to me. I've never dove with an operator that required skipping a morning dive to check out. I have dove with operators that require a DM your first dive so they can check you out. Granted, I have less than 200 dives and therefore my experience is limited compared to many posting in this thread.
 
Well as i
Well, there are two sides to this story, but I still don't understand why a dive operator cannot make arrangements for a morning dive the day after arrival. Others manage it safely and evaluate the experience, skills, and fitness of divers. This is the first time I have ever heard of making a diver wait until the afternoon of the day after arrival to dive. It's normally a question of which sites you will dive, not whether you will dive.
Well as it looks to me, the diver could have been diving in the morning, not a problem. When our rep realized it was critical to the client she said she will try to arrange it. But he was hanging up in the chat impatiantly when our rep asked him the info she needed to make that possible. As for sites, well we have many divers and several boats and the vast majority of divers wants to dive deep in the morning and shallower in the afternoon, this is why most boats are scheduled that way. Its probably 95% of divers like to dive deep AM and then continue more shallow on subsequent dives, so boats are planned to go out serving the request by the vast majority of divers. And yes we also at times go shallow in the morning, but not every day as there is little request for that. We also have often a separate DM staying more shallow with some of the divers on an AM dive, of course. But well the rep was all trying to help and check with the dive center and have it arranged. But when a client just hangs up there is not that much we can do.
 
Well, there are two sides to this story, but I still don't understand why a dive operator cannot make arrangements for a morning dive the day after arrival. Others manage it safely and evaluate the experience, skills, and fitness of divers. This is the first time I have ever heard of making a diver wait until the afternoon of the day after arrival to dive. It's normally a question of which sites you will dive, not whether you will dive.

From the chat transcript, Coralie tried to set up the 10 am check dive, but the potential customer has pretty much made up his mind to not deal with the shop.
 
So I'm in the process of having a very frustrating conversation with the online rep at ProDive Mexico. For some reason, they don't want to allow us to dive the morning dive the morning after our arrival. Besides hydration, what could POSSIBLY be the reason for this?

Hi all, I am Markus, from Pro Dive, and I have just read through this present thread. I would like to clarify that there is no rule at Pro Dive that someone is not allowed to "dive right after a flight". Obviously that wouldn't make any sense. What is correct is that we prefer to start on a dive with divers that are new to us, with a dive that is not a DEEP dive. We usually like to start with a shallow or mid deep dive, so the diver has time to freshen up again after time of no diving, and we as a shop also have an opportunity to get to know the diver, his skills and capacity. That's all. Obviously the morning dives are usually deep dives, then we do mid deep and more shallow dives during the course of the day. So we just like to avoid a new diver on his very first dive with us right on a (usually morning) deep dive, as we don't know him. Of course exceptions can be made, when appropriate! Sometimes we also do shallower dives in the morning (or deep dives around noon, as we operate several boats which provide a certain flexibility), and we also do exceptions when we see that divers have the sufficient experience to go dive deep with us right away. But to make such an exception, we need to know the experience of a diver, and we usually ask 3 things in a rebooking process, for everyone. 1) certification level 2) amount of dives logged during lifetime and 3) date of the last dive. Besides this, we also need to know that a diver is ok dive medically.

There are many dive shops not only in Cozmel but in Mexico and all over the world, which simply make their divers sign a waiver, so they are not legally responsable and thats it. They admit unexperienced divers on dives to deep or too challenging, or they don't care about medical issues thinking since a diver is certified he should know about this him/herself, so whatever. We don't. We do safety and customer service! - and therefore we receive a very good amount of divers per year that know about our reputation, and we want to assure the diving for everyone, safety is our main concern, as well as customer service of course. It has to be noted that in Cozumel at least a dozen divers die every year. Usually it is because of underlying conditions, like heart problems, high blood pressure and so on, that make divers struggle which can lead to accidents - this happens even to EXPERIENCED DIVERS, when they are not fit or out of shape, lie about their medical condition, their dive experience, etc etc. We have seen it all, divers that had heart surgery that lie about this, having a huge zip scar on their chest, or divers that state they dove since 25 years and they are very experienced, but sometimes these divers haven't been diving in years, or in the 25 years mentioned they maybe did just 12 dives. So this is the reason why we like to assess every diver thoroughly, and when we make exceptions to our safety standards (like to avoid divers going on a first dive with us right away deep), which often enough we do, we need to know about that specific diver in order to allow it. So, that being said, we make exceptions every day, when appropriate!

I like to stress here that I asked our reservations team about this case, as it made me wonder what happened here when reading, and it appears that the client here unfortunately had a bit of an aggressive approach right from start in the conversation (it was our web chat, where clients can chat life with our reservations team). Coralie, who was communicating with this diver, expressed in a friendly way about our standard but during the conversation she expressed that of course we also make exceptions depending on the experience level of the diver, but to do that that she needed that information. In my humble opinion, the client didn't really give her the chance, I will post the full chat below. It seems more like an already negativity laden approach of the client to confirm something he read elsewhere, without giving much chance so we could make things right and match the clients expectations - which very likely would have been possible!

Also, it can be seen here, while the client here in Scubaboard states he is a Rescue Diver currently in training to become a Divemaster, to our staff however he stated he is a certified Divemaster already. These are the little details I was mentioning beforehand. Furthermore, a Divemaster also normally knows that for an uncomfortable divers there is greater risk on a deep dive than on a shallower dives, for obvious reasons. Quicker air consumption, longer way to surface in case of distress, etc. etc. so for an assessment of a divers true skill level a dive which is not so deep is the easiest and best, carrying the least risk. Its obvious this has nothing to do with dehydration after a flight, and my judgement is that a Divemaster, because of his knowledge, would normally know and understand it.

As of this specific case, sure, a Rescue Diver also usually has some experience and most likely he could do a deep dive to start with, which is . But my point is that the assessment of a diver sometimes can be difficult, especially if divers are not entirely honest when providing their information. So considering this, 85 dives done in a lifetime, can become 85 dives done only this year, a Rescue diver certification can become a DM certification, and maybe a last dive done only 2 days ago has been 2 years ago in reality, statements provided because a client just doesn't want to be stopped from diving, or doesn't want to start out with a more shallow dive, or do a pool refresher, or whatever.

I am not saying this is all true for this specific inquiry, i am just trying to detail how difficult the job of assessment sometimes is. And like i said, we do not wash our vest clean not caring by simply having a diver waive his rights to sue us, we are really genuinely interested in the safety of our clients. For the clients sake, and for our sake as a company as well. Our company exists since almost 15 years now and we are operating in more than one country, about a dozen dive centres in total. Our growth is due to our way of operating, always putting safety and customer service first, obviously. In all those years, we have never ever had a fatal dive accident, not a single one, and we like to keep it that way. Especially looking ay statistics in Cozumel, where there are a lot of divers and many fatalities unfortunately do happen, mostly due to unfit divers, divers that engage into dives that are just too challenging for them, dive masters that don't correctly asses a divers and supply the necessary supervision, etc etc. we are quite proud about our clean accident history since company foundation.

...

Operator Coralie has joined the chat.
Coralie: Hello
Coralie: How can I help you ?
Visitor: Hi. We arrive the afternoon of the 22nd of August at the Allegro Cozumel and plan to do the morning dive the following day. Is this a problem?
Coralie: Hi, sounds good
Coralie: how many dives would you like to do in total ?
Visitor: Sorry, but you didn't answer my question.
Coralie: We usually ask our divers to start in the afternoon trip since our morning dives are usually deeper
Visitor: I read on one of the dive sites that you don't allow divers to dive the morning dive after their arrival the day before.
Coralie: so on your first diving day we prefer you to start with the afternoon dives and then on the next days you will be more than welcome to join the AM dives
Coralie: this is a safety protocol we have
Visitor: OK. Why?
Visitor: As a PADI Divemaster, I cannot think of a single reason to do this other than hydration which is easily remedied.
Visitor: Please share some good insight for this ...
Coralie: As I said our morning dives are deeper (around 90/100fet)
Coralie: and the current can be strong in Cozumel some days
Coralie: so as we do not know you as a diver yet, we like to start in the afternoon trip
Coralie: As a dive master you probably have some experience but as a dive master you also know that safety is very important in diving
Coralie: In pro dive safety is our major concern, so this is why we have some rules
Coralie: Now, it is also depends on your experience
Visitor: All of what you have just typed is absolutely true in every regard. HOWEVER, none of that has anything to do with restricting a diver after a flight the previous days. We don't want to lose a half day of diving.
Coralie: So I would have to check with the dive center if you can maybe start with the 10 AM dives
Coralie: what is your experience ?
Coralie: How many dives do you have logged ?
Coralie: We can make some exeption
...
....

So, Mitch H., what's your response? TBH, you come across like a jerk in that exchange.

And well done, Markus, for presenting your side of the story. I'll be sure to check out ProDive when/if I travel to Cozumel.
 
Also, the issue doesn't seem to be the dive's relationship to flight time. It seems to be that they want a shallow checkout dive first.
 
So, Mitch H., what's your response? TBH, you come across like a jerk in that exchange.

And well done, Markus, for presenting your side of the story. I'll be sure to check out ProDive when/if I travel to Cozumel.
Just trying to put things right Scuba Jill, and show the other perspective..so things are not misrepresented as of course many people reading on this board form opinions based on whats expressed here. That being said, I normally dont post much on Scubaboard, but this one had me itching :).

And sure, anytime, you are welcome to check us out anytime, it will be our pleasure to have you with us for some nice dives in Cozumel! Not only customer service but also Safety guaranteed, haha ;-)

Take care.
 
Holy cow! If that chat transcript is real, the OP has been called out.

That might explain why they asked my certification level (currently RD finishing my DM this weekend), my most recent dive (two days ago) and my total dives this year (85). Oddly, that didn't satisfy them. I've never seen this type of response from a dive op.

. . .
Coralie: We can make some exeption
. . .
Visitor: I have logged over 85 dives this year alone. I'm a PADI certified divemaster.
. . .
Coralie: I would check with the dive center how we can arrange AM dives for you
Coralie: You wrote me 85 dives thsi year, but how many dives in total ?
The visitor has left the chat.

Ouch.
 
Let me correct your statements. Welcome to SB :)

Just trying to put things right Scuba Jill, and show the other perspective..so things are not misrepresented as of course many people reading on this board form opinions based on whats expressed here. That being said, I normally dont ever post much on Scubaboard, but this one had me itching :).

And sure, anytime, you are welcome to check us out anytime, it will be our pleasure to have you with us for some nice dives in Cozumel! Not only customer service but also Safety guaranteed, haha ;-)

Take care.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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