"Not quite DIR"

[Lobzilla]

For me, R3 is just an awkward duck.

From a tec perspective yes. But it is called R3 and not T0.5 for a reason.

If you lack the skills for T1 (or a Fundies tech pass), what business do you have with "minor" mandatory deco obligations?

From what I gathered so far, R3 is neither quick nor easy and -knowing who teaches it- it should prepare you for "minor" deco obligations better than many run-of-the-mill AN/DP classes.

 

[Rainer]

From a tec perspective yes. But it is called R3 and not T0.5 for a reason.

It's a trimix class that covers gas switches and mandatory decompression requirements. I think it's pretty absurd to consider this a "recreational" course. IMO, someone wanting to do such dives should be able to meet the standards of a Fundies tech pass.

 

[Lobzilla]

It's a trimix class that covers gas switches and mandatory decompression requirements. I think it's pretty absurd to consider this a "recreational" course. IMO, someone wanting to do such dives should be able to meet the standards of a Fundies tech pass.

Ed Hayes gave me a brief run-down of the class and I am pretty sure that people who pass his class will be at GUE-F tech pass level or above (minus the requirements referring to doubles) when they are done.

What is absurd IMO is the hard line between Rec and Tech. Unless we get a paycheck for going underwater everything is recreational anyway.

Why not ease people into a more sensible and responsible form of diving without them being explicitly hooked on "tech" depths and/or bottom times? Because it is not 100% DIR in someone's mind? (feeble attempt to get back on topic).

Since JJ and the training council have decided to offer this class it is at least 100% GUE - and that's good enough for me.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Thank all of you for responding. Nice to know I can get to trimix a little sooner than I had thought. I am interested in the GUE "Rec" course. I will check that out on the GUE site. Is fundies (without the tech pass) the prerequisite?

I contemplate diving with singles (120) and a deco bottle but don't want to get more complicated than that and I don't want to go doubles at this time. However, if I am going to drop to 120-130 even with the shorter time singles require, I would still like to have the benefit of trimix. The "Rec 3" sounds like it best for me.

 

[rongoodman]

My question is, once you have done advanced nitrox (which I would want), why is there no option to then get trimix training? Especially when the benefits of trimix begin at 110-120?
Or, am I just not aware of a system that would offer that.

IANTD will let you progress from Advanced Nitrox to Normoxic Trimix. Technical Diver(Deep Air) is not required.

 

[Rainer]

GUE R3 requires doubles. They aren't *that* crazy.

Thank all of you for responding. Nice to know I can get to trimix a little sooner than I had thought. I am interested in the GUE "Rec" course. I will check that out on the GUE site. Is fundies (without the tech pass) the prerequisite?

I contemplate diving with singles (120) and a deco bottle but don't want to get more complicated than that and I don't want to go doubles at this time. However, if I am going to drop to 120-130 even with the shorter time singles require, I would still like to have the benefit of trimix. The "Rec 3" sounds like it best for me.

 

[deadbilly]

Thank all of you for responding. Nice to know I can get to trimix a little sooner than I had thought. I am interested in the GUE "Rec" course. I will check that out on the GUE site. Is fundies (without the tech pass) the prerequisite?

As far as I know, fundies or R1/R2 is the prerequisite. You don't need the tech pass.

 

[stargost]

The first is (predictably) deep air (or deep nitrox, whatever). I ask for a DIR sort of angle, because to a lot of people 130' on air is no big deal. To others, 165' is no big deal. I've felt some narc around 100-110'. My interest is how far "<100'" people are willing to stretch that in the total absence of available helium. How about in the absence of affordable helium?
.

Aquaregia,
I'd probably do a deep air dive, let's say 40m, if there is really really something worth seeing. I can see that happening in some warm water, great viz conditions. The "DIR angle" (what is left) I would use will be the awareness, planning and team approach: basically being even more paranoid and making sure that this dive is well though through - min gas, deco contingencies, might be requiring the dive op to get a tank at 20ft as some do - (much much more than the regular tropical dives are in general) but especially I'd only do it with a dive buddy i know well and have experienced with.

The main problem i see is that the few buddies I would feel comfortable doing this type of dive now ... will probably not do it (might even prevent me from doing it) !!!

On the deep nitrox approach, which i personally find more complex, 100' is max, but indeed if something decent would have a bottom at 110/120, why not - same conditions as above. But if there is no bottom, I'd try to restrain to 100 max, but will also ask myself how deep I'd go if there is an issue (buddy goes deeper, ...). I hate this question, but still got myself some answers and limits that i hope i''ll never have to experiment.

On your other questions about whether you can bring a manifold or get a stage, the issue i see is either you are diving in a place which will accept this type of dives and it is not really an issue, or you will be in a 'standard' dive operation where you need to have a DM with the group and then it is unlikely the DM or the operator will let you do this anyway.
But i'd be curious to see if/how the experienced 'dir' divers have managed this in the fancy and nice places around the world

 

[rlynch]

"Air" is not a standardized GUE gas - so "deep air" is not an answer which should be on this forum at all really.

But i'd be curious to see if/how the experienced 'dir' divers have managed this in the fancy and nice places around the world

I'll give you my answer for this though.

You have to look at the entire dive plan and the adviability of gas.

In hawaii, most places in the carribean, and almost all normal dive vacation spots, 32% is advailable at an added cost, I factor it into my dive resource planning and just dive 32% with a MOD of 100 fsw. 80% of my dives in locations like that are in the 60-80 fsw range anyway so there is no hinderence in the gas choice.

In places like india where 32% is Not readily advaialble, Goa for instance- i look at the plan and adjust my MOD to accomidate, the main sites are ~45fsw. Anything deeper or longer duration would not be attempted or planned given the gas advailbility issue.

Truely exotic locations such as Bikini Atoll, the soloman's etc require advanced planning for gas advailability and that has to be taken into account. no way i would plan or get in the water on a 150 fsw dive with just air in my tanks, I don't care where i'm at.

For something in the 0-150-175 range (Bikini Atoll) you would use a MOD 200 std gas i.e. 18/45 as back gas, and travel gas as appropiate to dive time, 50/50 or 100% deco gas.
Plan for it to be advailable, which requires work on your part to make it happen.

The easist thing in the world to do when your unsure, is to ask, call the dive operator and talk to them about the plans, sites, gas advailability, etc.
Just showing up and expecting it to be there is not going to work or worse is going to lead you to making a potentially fatal decision about doing a dive with the wrong gas i.e. a "Deep Air" profile.

If you can't get the right gas for the plan, change the plan to a shallower site or don't go.

 

[Bombay High]

"Air" is not a standardized GUE gas - so "deep air" is not an answer which should be on this forum at all really.


In places like india where 32% is Not readily advaialble, Goa for instance- i look at the plan and adjust my MOD to accomidate, the main sites are ~45fsw. Anything deeper or longer duration would not be attempted or planned given the gas advailbility issue.

.

You can get 32, 36, 40, Trimix of any flavour, Heliox etc etc in India. Trimix is difficult to get if you dont know how. But PM me if you are in India and would like some. Maybe more expensive than the US.

Bobbyp10 on the forum here offers nitrox upto 40% on the east coast at Pondicherry.

Goa Aquatics offers Nitrox as well

Trimix and Heliox is available in Bombay - contact Sat Diver on the forum as well as Cochin and Vizag (Vishakapatnam)

Its not always easy for holiday divers to find mixed gas, because in India, commercial diving is huge and recreational diving is almost unheard of (if no one is paying you, why bother).