Opinions: When DOES a new diver become advanced?

[loosenit2]

The variety of environments and conditions found underwater are so vast that the use of the word advanced in association with diver are meaningless. You are "advanced" if you are able to plan and lead a dive under specific conditions. That means you have the requisite education and experience to lead others under those conditions, or conditions that can reasonably be expected to occur on that type of dive. In other words you are a leader and not a follower.

we should stop talking about advanced diver and start talking about more specific conditions. An advanced OW lake diver, or advanced OW ocean current diver, or advanced ocean wreck diver.

Agencies got it wrong when they labeled classes "advanced", they started to get it right when the started calling similar classes adventure divers. Doing and leading are different things.

 

[Ayisha]

...People cite Fundies as a remarkable course. Without being disingenuous to the training nor those who participate, in effect its a basic course (taught well). However if you have invested $2000 in the course and travel accom etc, plus 5 vacation days, you are pretty incentivised to learn, and you have a desire to...

I wouldn't say Fundies is a basic course at all. The idea is that Fundamentals should be taught in an o/w course, but very few agencies even touch on what is covered extensively in a GUE Fundamentals course. My Fundies course bore no resemblance to my o/w course, and I had a good o/w course.

My Fundies course was $650 US and the shared accommodations were $25 US per night for 4 nights. Food was extremely cheap where we were. I don't know what others pay, but $2000 is close to 3 times what Fundies cost me in total.

So are people motivated because they paid a lot of money for Fundies or did they pay a lot of money for Fundies because they were motivated to learn?

I'll agree with you that the people who will pay for Fundies and spend the time and effort to practice and maintain skills are motivated learners.

 

[dewdropsonrosa]

I'm paying $750 for Fundies in 2019. It's heftier than most mainstream agencies, but by a factor of 2 rather than 6 or 7.

$2000 is extended tech course territory

 

[Divectionist]

I think there are three levels to it.

1. Theoretical knowledge and right mindset
2. Experience with the given dive type and conditions
3. Familiarity with the given gear and procedures

Any one diver can have all 3 covered for a certain dive and be considered advanced, but as soon as one variable drops out (new knowledge or mindset required / new type of dive or environment / unfamiliar equipment) towards becoming more challenging, the previously advanced diver becomes less so.

Of course the ability for a diver to adapt to new variables will increase as their general exposure to a variety of dive conditions increases. So I would say the breadth of dive experience is very important to the equation and probably a good measure of 'capability'.

This gives us the advanced diver under certain circumstances (which is absolutely valid for what it is worth) and the widely experienced advanced diver across many circumstances. Dive count, other than at the extreme ends of just a few dives or countless dives, is in my opinion not a reliable indicator.

 

[Diving Dubai]

This [snip] the widely experienced advanced diver across many circumstances.

Good post.

In the world of BSAC, the Advanced Dive (AD) Cert/level, is one step further than Dive Leader (DM)

So the AD will be experienced with numerous dive circumstances, they will also have the ability (Part of certification) to lead a group of divers on a multi day trip to unfamiliar (to them) dive sites, being the responsible person and organising all the logistics. This is in addition to the further knowledge and skills that need to be attained post DL. Being a DL or AD (or the final hard step of 1st class diver) does not require you to go down the instructor route.

This is one thing I really like about the BSAC system is that you can attain further progression without ever being an instructor (although DL, AD & 1st Class up are considered mentors)

 

[Divectionist]

1. Theoretical knowledge and right mindset
2. Experience with the given dive type and conditions
3. Familiarity with the given gear and procedures

I just thought about this some more and want to add
4. Confidence and self-reliance

I mean this in almost a 'personality' kind of way, where the diver puts factors 1 to 3 into a behavioural practice that displays a safety concern for oneself and other divers and the confidence to say no, speak up, and act against what is convenient or even polite, when required.

In a non-instruction environment, an advanced diver stands out by trusting their own instincts and experience towards conservatism and keeping it as a boundary that is not pushed by reliance on others or any other forms of group think and peer pressure.

 

[TMHeimer]

When they can be thrown into a variety of dive environments, be faced with a variety of problems and handle it all gracefully.

I like to split hairs. If you can do this in 5 different dive environments then you are advanced in those 5. The 6th one--maybe, maybe not.
Based on recent posts, I would agree that one could be "advanced" regarding basic scuba skills--those which are needed in all types of diving--buoyancy, finning, breathing for example. Yet not be an advanced Wreck diver due to no penetration training and experience.

 

[Scubamat]

I personally like to think most of us are a bit of both at different times. You're advanced when you can act as a mentor to another diver in those conditions. You are advanced on that dive, however often you will still need to look for a mentor when pushing your limits and return to being the basic diver.

 

[Doby45]

Best answer I ever got is: If you have to ask, you ain't.

 

[Bowers]

I like to split hairs. If you can do this in 5 different dive environments then you are advanced in those 5. The 6th one--maybe, maybe not.
Based on recent posts, I would agree that one could be "advanced" regarding basic scuba skills--those which are needed in all types of diving--buoyancy, finning, breathing for example. Yet not be an advanced Wreck diver due to no penetration training and experience.

i would agree that the "advanced diver" i define is not especially advanced in all fields both rather more of a general term definition.