Orange Grove fatality?

[cerich]

When an accident happens law enforcement requests the assistance of recovery divers, and that recovery diver becomes part of the law enforcement team covering the case. Once the recovery divers gives an opinion, they cease being part of the law enforcement team, and become an expert, which exposes you to liability.

could you cite the relevant code on that?

 

[PfcAJ]

If Al talked to Lamar I seriously doubt Lamar revealed anything. Lamar knows that all recoveries are considered crime scenes and under control of law enforcement. While this is an active case under control of law enforcement you will not hear an opinion from Lamar or any recovery diver. When an accident happens law enforcement requests the assistance of recovery divers, and that recovery diver becomes part of the law enforcement team covering the case. Once the recovery divers gives an opinion, they cease being part of the law enforcement team, and become an expert, which exposes you to liability.

Liable for what exactly?

Lots of hand waving going on....

 

[karstdvr]

Liable for what exactly?

Lots of hand waving going on....

There are a couple accidents where the recovery divers were named in a law suit by the widow,because in suits they will name as many people as possible looking for the deepest pockets (CDS can testify to that from the School sink issue). If you perform a recovery at the request of law enforcement because it is a crime scene, then you receive liability protection because you are functioning at the request of law enforcement. Once that person goes outside law enforcement then they are functioning on their own by issuing an opinion,now you are an expert, and you no longer have the veil of protection from law enforcement. I might have some basic steps wrong because I am not in law enforcement,but the people who developed the protocol for doing recoveries have tremendous law enforcement experience, and went to great effort to protect cave divers. I have been part of a couple recoveries, and found that law enforcement controlled the scene and their rules,not sure if that is the hand waving you are describing.

 

[PfcAJ]

There are a couple accidents where the recovery divers were named in a law suit by the widow,because in suits they will name as many people as possible looking for the deepest pockets (CDS can testify to that from the School sink issue). If you perform a recovery at the request of law enforcement because it is a crime scene, then you receive liability protection because you are functioning at the request of law enforcement. Once that person goes outside law enforcement then they are functioning on their own by issuing an opinion,now you are an expert, and you no longer have the veil of protection from law enforcement. I might have some basic steps wrong because I am not in law enforcement,but the people who developed the protocol for doing recoveries have tremendous law enforcement experience, and went to great effort to protect cave divers. I have been part of a couple recoveries, and found that law enforcement controlled the scene and their rules,not sure if that is the hand waving you are describing.

So again what are they liable for? Specifics. What were they sued for?

You just repeated yourself but used more words to do it.

Also, stating facts (diver was found at x with his gear in y state) isn't an opinion. That's all the Iucrr reports used to have. Maybe some narrative if it we relayed by a member of the dive team.

 

[karstdvr]

So again what are they liable for? Specifics. What were they sued for?

You just repeated yourself but used more words to do it.

Also, stating facts (diver was found at x with his gear in y state) isn't an opinion. That's all the Iucrr reports used to have. Maybe some narrative if it we relayed by a member of the dive team.

They were named in the suit that was eventually dropped,what they were sued for not sure because it was dropped,but nowadays it can be anything. Yeah, you are not found liable,but you will expend a lot of money defending yourself. The purpose of the protocols is to take away that liability. You seem to have a lot of frustration with a previous event you were engaged in.

Did you ever go back later and ask for records?

Have you ever asked the law enforcement professionals that developed these protocols-why and what for?

Are you familiar with protocols that were developed initially by Henry Nicholson and refined by other cave diving law enforcement officers?

 

[PfcAJ]

They were named in the suit that was eventually dropped,what they were sued for not sure because it was dropped,but nowadays it can be anything. Yeah, you are not found liable,but you will expend a lot of money defending yourself. The purpose of the protocols is to take away that liability. You seem to have a lot of frustration with a previous event you were engaged in.

Did you ever go back later and ask for records?

Have you ever asked the law enforcement professionals that developed these protocols-why and what for?

Are you familiar with protocols that were developed initially by Henry Nicholson and refined by other cave diving law enforcement officers?

Ok so did those people actually have to spend money defending themselves?

I'm frustrated with all Iucrr stuff. The even I was involved in just confirmed what I had previously suspected. I got the full deal that day, the rest of the cave diving community didn't. Same with this incident at OG.

 

[karstdvr]

Ok so did those people actually have to spend money defending themselves?

I'm frustrated with all Iucrr stuff. The even I was involved in just confirmed what I had previously suspected. I got the full deal that day, the rest of the cave diving community didn't. Same with this incident at OG.

I can understand your frustration, and since you didn't answer my questions I think you didn't get a full understanding of why and what for. I say don't condemn the protocols until your are fully cognizant of the rationale.

 

[PfcAJ]

I can understand your frustration, and since you didn't answer my questions I think you didn't get a full understanding of why and what for. I say don't condemn the protocols until your are fully cognizant of the rationale.

Lol then fill me in Kelly.

So far is mysterious "liability".

 

[bullfroger]

who said there was 2200 in the turned off tank?

 

[karstdvr]

Ok so did those people actually have to spend money defending themselves?

I'm frustrated with all Iucrr stuff. The even I was involved in just confirmed what I had previously suspected. I got the full deal that day, the rest of the cave diving community didn't. Same with this incident at OG.

Lol then fill me in Kelly.

So far is mysterious "liability".

Lol then fill me in Kelly.

So far is mysterious "liability".

So.......
Did you ever go back later and ask for records?
Have you ever asked the law enforcement professionals that developed these protocols-why and what for?
Are you familiar with protocols that were developed initially by Henry Nicholson and refined by other cave diving law enforcement officers?