Out of gas - what happens next?

[C P]

I have actually seen one and been involved in two that turned out to be equipment problems. One the divemaster was checking everyone as they got in, and turned the tank valve off, then on a half turn. At depth it didn't deliver air enough for the diver and she calmly came over and signaled, then reached out and plucked my octo from its keeper and we figured out and corrected the problem. The second equipment issue was the mouthpiece came off the second stage. I held out my octo to the diver who looked and me and very calmly assessed the issue and got his own octo. The third was the one I saw. Diving off the Carolina Coast off a boat a friend got hooked up with an insta-buddy who ended up being a hard head. My friend signaled to go up, the insta-buddy asked for a couple more minutes, my friend turned to my buddy and I and gave the WTF sign as the insta-buddy grabbed his second stage from his mouth, took two breaths and spit out the reg then bolted the 60 feet to the surface. The first two were very competently trained and are great divers. The insta-buddy didn't get in the water with us again.

 

[sunshower]

I've seen it twice; both times the divers remained calm and took the reg supplied by another diver; no grabbing of the primary out of the mouth.

 

[tbone1004]

The grabbing of someone's reg out of their mouth is one of the most widely cited myths. The UK HSE did an extensive study and found divers do what they were trained to do, even 20 years later. So the only OOG diver who'll take your reg is one who was trained that way.

and yet, I've been mugged twice, once actually by a BSAC trained diver.... I've seen three other occasions of people grabbing for primaries albeit not mine. All were trained for some form of donate instead of "take", spare the BSAC diver who was trained for secondary take. I'll stick to long hose primary, regardless of getting mugged or not, it's just a much more intelligent regulator set up. Even assuming that you are not going to be mugged, the hose routing is cleaner, you are handing an excited diver what is normally the easier breathing of the two second stages, it is a known functioning gas source, etc etc. Primary donate for the argument of getting mugged is something that is a perk, and whether or not you believe in it is up to you, but plan for the worst and hope for the best. By planning on secondary take, you are planning for the best.
That HSE study is very flawed in their methodology as all diving studies are because it relies on things getting reported. Who is going to report the embarrassment of having to steal someones regulator. Same with the DCS reports, we don't actually know how many people get bent every year because we have no way of tracking other than those that get treated.

 

[Steve_C]

Had an first ocean first past OW instabuddy. Her mouthpiece came off and she thought her reg would not work and she could not find her alternate since not where it was when she trained. Immediately came to me with OOA sign. Gave her my alternate. I found hers. After she relaxed on mine I put her back on hers and we finished the dive. She handled it just like she was trained.

 

[joe10540]

How calm someone who goes OOG is depends on a few things. Did they know it was coming? If the reg got hard to breathe like an unbalanced first stage would at 100+ maybe they still got a couple breaths. I had a guy snatch my first stage on a drift dive cause he wasn't paying attention and ran so low his reg wasn't delivering. I was carrying a slung 40 so I just unclipped it and asked for my primary back. Then again if someone has a super high performance first stage where it breathes the same all the way to 0 then they might have just exhaled and tried to take a breath to find nothing. I've seen two people bolt to the surface because of that (and then have to sit out the second dive. Apparently the captain didn't trust them not to do it again)

 

[Edward3c]

and yet, I've been mugged twice, once actually by a BSAC trained diver.... I've seen three other occasions of people grabbing for primaries albeit not mine. All were trained for some form of donate instead of "take", spare the BSAC diver who was trained for secondary take.

I take it you briefed your buddies to take/accept your primary, if needed.

I recently dived with a buddy with a long hose primarily, short hose secondary. As.a training exercise I gave the OOG signal just after the 'turn round' point. The tried handing me the secondary, then their primary (with nothing in their mouth) which totally freaked them out. If the OOG had been real it could have been a messy outcome.

Discussion after the dive. They had adopted the configuration having seen others diving it, but hadn't had any training and never practised OOG drills with it.

They've decided to revert to a standard configuration until they they get proper training on primary donate.

However, I agree primary take will happen occasionally.

That HSE study is very flawed in their methodology as all diving studies are because it relies on things getting reported. Who is going to report the embarrassment of having to steal someones regulator. Same with the DCS reports, we don't actually know how many people get bent every year because we have no way of tracking other than those that get treated.

The HSE report was not based on incident reports, but observing 'commercial' divers in OOG situations when they were briefed for a completely different task. Unfortunately, the report is no longer on their website.

 

[rgdiver1]

Over the years, I have personally witnessed a few out of or low on gas events where a diver panicked. This is not pretty when it happens, and I believe too few divers today are really prepared to deal with these situations. When I originally learned to dive, military-style hassling was part of the training, but that went out of style in recreational diver instruction long ago.

When it happens, I wouldn't count on an OOG diver calmly taking the alternate air source or primary. You have to be prepared and ready to stay calm and take charge to prevent the situation from escalating into something far worse.

 

[theodorthiele]

I've actually run OOG myself twice (shame on me), so figured I'd share from the OOG diver's perspective. Once was due to a faulty SPG showing 70 bar over what was actually in the tank (shallow dives so did two dives on one tank, which was usually fine, but not when it had only had 130 bar to begin with) - luckily it was an unbalanced first stage, so I had 3 breaths from it started getting hard to breathe, so simply went to my buddy, signalled out of air, and grabbed his octopus - we then did a safety stop while swimming toward the boat. Second time was during a series of very shallow lionfish hunting dives (all max depth of 5 metres) - where I had done several on the same tank, and been too careless with checking gas - and to focused on hunting fish which had impacted my breathing rate. Again - unbalanced first stage allowed me to do a relatively calm standard PADI procedure, this time forcing myself a bit more on the diver, as I didn't know how experienced he was and I didn't want him to react by swimming away or panicking - so grabbed onto BCD, gave sign, took octo, signalled OK, and we ascended the few metres to the boat.

In both cases the donating diver and myself were following standard PADI procedures which seemed to work out fine - BUT I cannot say what I would have done with a balanced first stage and a buddy being further away - in the above situations I'd probably have surfaced as I knew the dives were well within safe limits of not needing safety stops.

I've now changed to longhose and necklace, and make sure to tell buddies that they will receive my primary (either by asking for it or grabbing it) - too many insta-buddies barely talk to each other, and have no knowledge of the gear their buddy is wearing.

 

[BoltSnap]

The OOA diver's reaction is directly proportional to their mental state which relates to how long they have been OOA and if they are really OOA or just very low on air. If they are on the verge or reached the point of panic with "eyes bulging out" type of mental state, they are going to grab what they perceive their only way to satisfy their extreme hunger for air, that nice second stage blowing sexy bubbles in the donor's mouth.

 

[GlennL]

I'm still a green horn. But aside from a catastrophic equipment failure I just don't understand how people run out of air so nonchalantly. I mean do people seriously not check their gauges? You are freaking underwater and rely on the tank on your back(or side or whatever) for your LIFE. I personally am a creature of habit. Was the in the military blah blah etc. You train like you fight. And as others have mentioned you ultimately fall back on training when the crap hits the fan. If you had poor training then that's a different problem. But my point is, Does the average instructor just not incorporate checking your gas?? Personally I have tried to aim myself to check my gas about every 30 seconds or so. It's my life support duh. I will admit this task has become easier since I got ai and started keeping my hands out in front of me interlocked. But even before that I frequently checked my spg. Still do actually as I keep my prior console as a backup. I just don't understand how people go ooa, except like aforementioned an equipment failure that is so bad you can't even breathe off a free flow. My personal opinion is that if you can't check your gas then you can't (shouldn't) dive. I would do what I could for the ooa diver, but wouldn't ever dive with them again If could help it. But then you run into problems when you are solo and instabuddied on a charter. But that's a whole different tangent for a different thread.