Mike, it’s perfectly OK not to fill in any boxes if you have a doctor sign the next page. PADI Training have confirmed this with me.
OWD license without a doctor's certificate?
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@tridacna you have stated that multiple time in this thread. I strongly suggest you to please double check your sources.
First, some context: I am a PADI Instructor in the US, and as far as I can tell so are you, so we should both be working from the same baseline. I can NOT speak to any variation by agency or geography, although I would suspect there are far more similarities than differences.
Okay, here we go.....
The 2nd paragraph of the Medical Statement https://www.padi.com/sites/default/files/documents/padi-courses/2.1.5 rstc medstate v201.pdf says:
"Read this statement prior to signing it. You must complete this Medical Statement, which includes the medical questionnaire section, to enroll in the scuba training program."
I personally find this to be unambiguous, and would not think to request clarification.
I next checked the Instructor Manual, and found nothing contradictory. I'll summarize what is stated there as "do the paperwork."
Being very skeptical that PADI would have a "secret menu" of standards that are not in print for all of us to follow uniformly, I did contact the office this week. They did NOT confirm your assertion. The Instructor Development Programs Specialist that responded to my email directed me to pages 120-121 of the PADI's Guide to Teaching. The text I am including here is from pages 106-107 of my earlier copy, predating the OW 2.0 version of the Guide.
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Medical Fitness for Diving
Every student diver must review, complete and sign the PADI Medical Statement (RSTC Medical form) at the beginning of each PADI course/experience that includes any inwater activities. If a student diver answers “yes” to any question in the Divers Medical Questionnaire section, the student diver must get written medical approval prior to any inwater activity. In some areas, all student divers must get medical approval before diving. Because requirements vary from country to country, consult with your PADI Office whenever you start teaching in a new area.
Any question of medical fitness is solely the physician’s area of expertise. Student divers who are physicians can’t sign their own medical statement or give themselves medical clearance. Ultimately, you have the right to make the final decision about who you will accept into your scuba course after medical approval is obtained. You have no obligation to accept every applicant.
NOTE: The Continuing Education Administrative document, which includes the Divers Medical Questionnaire, covers continuing education divers for any course they take up within 12 months – including PADI Adventures in Diving program, Rescue Diver, Master Scuba Diver and Specialty Diver courses.
New Medical Statement?
When enrolled in a PADI course, if a student diver becomes ill or injured for any reason, the diver must complete a new PADI Medical Statement to document a change in medical history.
In some instances, a temporary change in condition may not merit a new form or medical evaluation. Use the medical form to determine if the student diver’s change in medical condition would cause the diver to check off something new on the form. If so, the diver must be cleared for diving by a physician prior to resuming inwater training.
If a diver enrolls in the next course, and answers “yes” to any medical questions on the PADI Medical Statement, the diver only needs to seek medical clearance again if the diver’s medical condition has changed since the last medical form. If the diver obtained medical clearance from a physician within the past year for the same “yes” answers, the diver does not need to obtain new clearance. However, if the diver answered “yes” to any additional questions, the diver must
receive medical clearance from a physician before any inwater activities.
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I am not going to speculate regarding through what miscommunication or misunderstanding you arrived upon your current assertion, but I do think it would be best if you double (triple?) check before again offering it up to divers and other instructors within the PADI system. PM me if you would like the name of the Specialist I consulted for your own follow up.
I am also not veering off onto what the standards and paperwork requirements should or shouldn't be, I am soley addressing what they actually are.
Finally, I would also suggest that both in this instance and in life in general, when push comes to shove one would find that a verbal variance from a printed standard, regulation, law etc. is exactly worth the paper that variance is printed on.
How about a lawyer saying you failed to inform the personnel of a pre-existing medical condition, violating the instructions printed on the form? Can you imagine that? How about an instructor accepting an incompletely filled form neglecting to maintain proper documentation (and what other agency standards they might be ignoring in their instruction)?
We're all nice people not out to sue each other, so the above never happens.
Are you sure about that? It says "if unsure answer yes" and then it says "do you have high cholesterol" without defining "high". Do you a) know what RSTC considers "high cholesterol": LDL over 190? Total cholesterol over 200? And b) do you know what yours was at the time?
If unsure tick yes.
Nice diatribe. My source is Training Director at PADI. We’ve argued this multiple times on SB. I think @tursiops had an opinion too.
No responses needed on form if Doctor’s note is signed.
Please don’t answer with a 500+ word essay before you talk to PADI. If you get a different response, tell me who you spoke to and I’ll happily eat crow.
Diatribe? I worked very hard to be as non-confrontational as possible without obscuring or diluting the message. My apologies if I offended, but I suspect it was unavoidable.
Now, to be less polite - PLEASE READ ALL THE WORDS!
You will find that I did correspond with PADI, and stated as much.
You will also find that I offered to provide you with name of the PADI Specialist that replied to my email if you send me a PM so that you can verify for yourself.
As long as I am at it, since the majority of my post was a copy/paste from PADI documents, I'll even have to disagree with your characterization of my post as an essay. I wrote the least I felt was necessary to convey the information. Leaving out some of the words is often how we get here!
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I'm perfectly comfortable with being given a blank medical statement with the student's signature on page 1 and with a doctor's signature on page 2 affirming fitness to dive. Per PADI this is the only purpose of all those invasive questions. Narrow reading of only part of that form might lead one to think you must answer all those questions, but the actual statement you sign at the end does not say that. In fact, it says you are taking responsibilty for omissions. Why would it say that if omissions were not allowed?
Sigh.... speaking of narrow readings, sounds like you have your own that you believe supports your personal preference.
I have now provided the specific explanatory and unambiguous PADI language on the subject. ALL of it, not SOME of it.
And that is the reference that PADI directed me to, I did not come across the content in Guide to Teaching on my own. (Only so much time to spend on these things.)
So feel free to have your own alternate, unsupported reading of the standards and guidelines, but perhaps it is better to check with the authors themselves to be sure. That is what I did this week.
Separately, I have no idea what potential consequences, if any, there might be in doing your paperwork differently than instructed/expected. Probably no big deal, for the vast majority of the time. But those extreme exceptions do eventually come up sometime, somewhere, to bite someone in the butt if not followed.
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