PADI class has dive calculator instead of tables now?

[Buoyant1]

This is incredibly common and the reason table use is deprecated. I also bought a PDC within a month of finally getting certified, but I paid close to a grand (if memory serves me).

I was lucky and only paid about $350-400 for mine....still use it too! (ok, I'm only certified for like 6 years)

 

[Buoyant1]

My daughters crew pack came with eRDPml, but I have a couple old crew packs from my teaching days that have the tables. I am going to show her how to do both table and wheel.

Just thinking out loud...shouldn't they just still give SOME table instruction in case of "battery failures"??? I know in a pinch if my computer gives up the ghost that I can at least fudge the rest of my day with a watch, depth gauge and tables?!?! I mean I'm not going to do a LONG repetitive dive on the Spiegel Grove, but if I'm cruising a nice shallow reef I'm not going to really worry about my NDL's....

 

[rollerboi]

Everyone needs to learn the tables. If nothing else, you need to be able to follow altitude and nitrox tables, should you encounter them in the course of your diving career. The tools may be nice, but should not entirely supplant the instruction of tables.

 

[belairbrian]

I was lucky and only paid about $350-400 for mine....still use it too! (ok, I'm only certified for like 6 years)

I think i paid $125 for my Prodigy 15 years ago and still carry it as a backup.

Got my Veo 180NX with Console for $175.

Basic Computers even ntirox capable are fairly inexpensive. If you already have a console you really only need a hockey puck computer to stick in it.

 

[FuzzyNutz]

While I see and understand some points brought up, I still think it should be extremely important to teach new divers how to use a table. The gadgets might not always work, or may be forgotten, and you'll need to depend on something. It would seem that someone would be completely lost if they didn't have their fancy shmancy computer to tell them what to do. ... A calculator is a tool, and you should only use those tools once you understand what is going on, before you can make the task simpler... we all learned basic math before using a calculator - and you can't use one on a test either.

I would just think that it is common sense to make it mandatory to teach dive tables, regardless if you introduced computers or not. Being 'certified' should at least mean (and include) knowing the basics.

Since I'm still somewhat of a newbie, a computer is the last thing on my list of gear to buy, because it not necessary (and ironically the most expensive) - and the more I dive, the more I learn and see that technology can ruin a diver's day, and should esentially be avoided. ... This is way out of my range, but I understand that you can't use computers with certain gas mixes or in certain situations, and this is on a more technical level of diving. ... if they're not used on the most extreme dives, then they certainly aren't needed for recreational diving... unless you're either lazy or uneducated. Make a plan, dive your plan, and dive smart... your day will be fool-proof.

 

[Blackwood]

I would just think that it is common sense to make it mandatory to teach dive tables, regardless if you introduced computers or not. Being 'certified' should at least mean (and include) knowing the basics.

if you read the thread previously linked to, you'll learn that many (myself included) don't believe that learning to use tables and knowing the basics are the same thing (as you suggest here).

A dive computer is a tool. So is a table. (and FWIW the ERDP is much more like the latter than the former).

Yah, it can fail and you can forget it. Same can be said for almost any piece of dive paraphernalia.

 

[The Chairman]

Everyone needs to learn the tables.

Why? They aren't the root of understanding decompression.

If nothing else, you need to be able to follow altitude and nitrox tables, should you encounter them in the course of your diving career. The tools may be nice, but should not entirely supplant the instruction of tables.

My PDC handles altitude and Nitrox just fine. Tables have their place, but not necessarily in an OW class.

 

[John_B]

Although I don't think sharing a computer is a practice to be encouraged . . . before we blast someone for doing it, let's look a bit at what he'd learn from the eRDPml. NDLs for a first dive to 60 feet (the recommended max for a new diver) is 55 minutes. This, of course, is assuming a square profile, so all the time is done at 60 feet.

Now assume the diver is carrying the "usual" beginner tank, with about 80 cf of gas in it. And assume he has the "usual" beginning diver gas consumption, in the range of 1 cf/min. At 3 ATA, he's going through 3 cf/min. Assuming he wants to arrive at the surface with 500 psi, he has 70 cf he can use, or about 23 minutes of bottom time. He's SO far from no-deco limits that whether he is precisely at the same depth as his buddy or not just isn't going to make a difference.

If he goes deeper, his bottom time is going to get so short, it's still going to keep him out of trouble from a decompression standpoint (he can, of course, run short on or out of gas!)

It's only when people's gas consumption drops (usually through experience) and/or they begin to dive much larger tanks, that going into deco becomes a significant issue, even on air.

Lynne, that diver who doesn't plan his dive for the NDL because "the computer will keep them out of the chamber" also doesn't plan for anything else (gas management being at the top of the list, not to mention depth management, buddy management, etc.).

Sure, that first dive they might be OK but add up nitrogen loading for four dives a day on air and see how it works out.

Not to mention how fast that AL80 is going to go at 90'.

 

[Blackwood]

Not to mention it?

Wasn't that (gas often goes quicker than remaining nd time) a major basis for her post?

 

[John_B]

Not to mention it?

Wasn't that (gas often goes quicker than remaining nd time) a major basis for her post?

I believe her point was that the lack of air in an AL80 would decrease their dive time below the NDL. Which may be true, depending on the diver, at least for the first dive of the day.

My point was that the diver who can't be bothered to plan their dive from an N₂ perspective probably can't be bothered to plan their dive from a gas planning or gas management perspective either, making them a potential hazard to themselves and their fellow divers.