PADI vs. NAUI

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Going through this thread brought a question to mind: would I want to receive training from a relatively inexperienced diver?

I noticed that Jeff, you list yourself as a new diver, and also mention "future students".

Personally, I beleive that there is no substitute for experience, even with the knowledge available to students and instructors today.

I know that my instructors had been diving for about 30 years, and his father/partner had been diving for almost as long as diving has been around. Some of the information they pass along is not listed in any manual of any sort, and they provide "real life" examples of the text book lessons that are printed.

I guess what i am saying is that if i was interested in being an instructor, i would plan on increasing my experience for some time before i decided to pass on my knowledge to others.

Cheers.

WannaLaguna:
Hi Brian,

I must say reading your response was quite entertaining. I wanted to respond to you and all other conspiracy theorists out there that (as Mdance mentioned) I am very serious about pursuing a professional status as an instructor and was only wondering what agency produced the most qualified talent. No ulterior motives, no evil plots to take over the world, just looking for information. ; )

I completely agree with what everyone seems to be saying "it comes down to the individual instructor, no matter what card he or she carries in their wallet."

As far as my site goes and the imagery that is on it; I have worked with PADI through my lds and that is who I am certified with. The site is purely for my future students as an informational site I will not be hocking merchandise or anything of that sort....although you have planted a seed.. : )

I am extremely passionate about this industry and the education of highly qualified divers. It will be my mission to promote a sport that is fun and more importantly safe. To educate both divers and non-divers about issues related to our underwater environments and how to preserve them for future generations of divers.

As far as the guts to publish my identity on my profile..?? Why wouldn't I? I want to meet as many people as I can that feel the same way about our sport.

Cheers everyone and Happy *SAFE diving.
 
Depth 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140

NAUI 80 55 45 35 25 22 15 12 8 na
PADI 80 55 40 30 25 20 16 13 10 8

80'@20 mins 1 hour SIT, 50' NDL
NAUI: 51 mins
PADI: 63 mins

50'@80 mins 1 hour SIT, 40' NDL
NAUI: 43 mins
PADI: 100 mins!

Looks like PADI is more conservative on the first dive up to 110', but NAUI gives less credit for the SIT.

Don't take my numbers for gospel, though...check 'em yourself
 
whitedragon13:
Depth 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140

NAUI 80 55 45 35 25 22 15 12 8 na
PADI 80 55 40 30 25 20 16 13 10 8

80'@20 mins 1 hour SIT, 50' NDL
NAUI: 51 mins
PADI: 63 mins

50'@80 mins 1 hour SIT, 40' NDL
NAUI: 43 mins
PADI: 100 mins!

Looks like PADI is more conservative on the first dive up to 110', but NAUI gives less credit for the SIT.

Don't take my numbers for gospel, though...check 'em yourself

It goes to show just how extra conservative the NAUI tables are.

If I were doing these profiles, I would have no problem stretching the NDL on the first set (2nd dive) to 70mins......

and gas permitting (which it wouldn't with 2 "K" bottles:-]) on the second dive you could easily do 140-150min!!
I have no problems with conservatism, but the difference is so padded it doesn't make much sense. In fact, it's quite rediculous and should at least be an eye opener as to the grain of salt we should take the various tables with.

YMMV

Regards

Steve
 
ScubaCanada:
Going through this thread brought a question to mind: would I want to receive training from a relatively inexperienced diver?

I noticed that Jeff, you list yourself as a new diver, and also mention "future students".

Personally, I beleive that there is no substitute for experience, even with the knowledge available to students and instructors today.

I know that my instructors had been diving for about 30 years, and his father/partner had been diving for almost as long as diving has been around. Some of the information they pass along is not listed in any manual of any sort, and they provide "real life" examples of the text book lessons that are printed.

I guess what i am saying is that if i was interested in being an instructor, i would plan on increasing my experience for some time before i decided to pass on my knowledge to others.

Cheers.

Hey ScubaCanada,

Yes, of course you are right, but I thought I made myself clear: I list myself as a new diver and yes I plan on having "future" students. Stressing "future" I don't plan on pursuing my instructors cert until I have at least 300-500 dives in varying conditions. - its a l-o-o-o-o-n-g road to get there. I have many certs to attain along the way.

Ask your instructor how many logged dives he had before he pursued his instructors card.

Promoting Safe Smart Diving is my mission.

cheers.

Jeff

BTW- Since posting this original thread I have decided to go NAUI
 
havnt read entier thread yet, sorry if this has already been asked,
a lot of talk goes into 'finding a good instructor'. if thats teh concensus, whats the best way to establish what makes a good instructor, how you go about finding one, etc.
I finished my AOW this summer with a PADI instructor and thought the instruction was great, but i have no basis for comparison :shrug:
 
A couple of things: The NAUI tables are the Navy Tables with one step backed off to be a bit more conservative. That's why the Navy tables allow 60 feet for 60 minutes but the NAUI tables go for 55 minutes. There are now some modifications on ascents thrown in for a bit more good measure.

The PADI tables were based off of the same theory a la Haldane (tissue M-value based). However, the consideration of PADI was that these tables are built for recreational diving, which does not allow for mandatory decompression and calls for remaining within certain time and depth limits.

Getting into theory (ho-hum for some of you out there), the Navy and NAUI tables use a slower compartment for controlling the maximum dive times and tissue saturation levels in determining depth and time limits. These were, at the time of the construction of the tables, thought to be the slow tissue compartments which ongas more slowly and offgas more slowly, too.

The conclusion of PADI was that recreational divers do not do the kind of diving that makes this slower compartment get saturated due to the shorter dive times and shallower depths carried out by recreational divers. So why base diving off of that compartment?

PADI uses a faster compartment (60 versus 120 minutes) for the controller in its table formulation. As a result, this tends to make most initial dives shorter. However, inasmuch as the diver will theoretically offgas faster between dives in this compartment, it allows for shorter surface intervals and somewhat longer (depending on profiles) second dives.

Of course, time and theories have advanced since the creation of both of these tables. More and more divers are using bubble theory incorporated in some measure or other in their computation algorithms. That's why you will find that most technical divers opt for software that incorporates this in its calculations (such as V-Planner) rather than using dive tables (other than the new NAUI RGBM based tables). It is also why you will find that these divers tend to start their safety/decompression stops deeper than with conventional tables and why their "no stop" times tend to be even more conservative than with these tables.

If you have not been diving using this type of planning yet, you will notice a difference in how you feel when you exit the water after a few hours. That pretty much says it all in my opinion.

FWIW, I was a Navy table diver since the 80s and made the switch to V-Planner about a year and a half ago. I still carry my Navy Tables with me in case I have to use them on the fly. I have learned the patterns of my software and can make a quick and dirty conversion from the Navy tables in an emergency if I have to (but I always use my software for planning).

Back to the subject at hand, I took training from several different agencies including NASDS, PADI and NAUI before I became an instructor. I absolutely noticed a difference between what the agencies teach and how they teach it.

For that reason, even though I was already a PADI Divemaster, I elected to become and NAUI instructor and later went on to become an Instructor Trainer and then a Course Director. I actually had to go back two steps to become a NAUI instructor when I just could have taken one step to become a PADI instructor. But I was doing this for reasons other than just getting certified. There are differences between the agencies.

That being said, I continued to train with other instructors of other agencies, including PADI, because each agency does have some exceptional instructors. The instructor is the most important thing but there are differences between what each agency does and how it does it. I feel that the only way for anyone to understand the differences is to take training from each and then make the decision.
 
That was interesting reading. I've got to dig up my old NAUI tables and see what's changed.
 
The tables and examples I posted below were from the old NAUI tables-I don't have the RGBMs...so I'm guessing the RGBM version would be even more conservative?
 

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