PFO-An open letter of thanks to George Irvine (long)

[detroit diver]

Thanks everyone. Actually, I feel great. No strenuous excersize for 2 days, and then back to normal life.

Chad- They don't do bubble studies often for divers here in Michigan either! To a person, every nurse asked my what my symptoms were. I told them I had none and they couldn't understand it.

PT40- Most people DO live normal lives with PFO's. We are in a totally different category with our beloved sport.

Mike-The unexplained deaths are precisely why I wrote this story. I think it's a shame that the industry doesn't at least bring the issue up. It has the potential to effect many divers.
I've had a couple of conversations with Dr Thomas. He's a really lucky guy. I originally put a mention of him and the PFO in my story, but I had to cut it out because of the length limitations for posting.
You of all people should get tested with the type of diving that you do. I can't tell you yet about the costs, as I was lucky to have my insurance company pay for it.

 

[ckharlan66]

Chad- They don't do bubble studies often for divers here in Michigan either! To a person, every nurse asked my what my symptoms were. I told them I had none and they couldn't understand it.

My Doc thought it was so cool I was concerned about it he didn't even charge me for the study....he was a diver.

Chad

 

[wandernsoul]

I had a PFO repaired when I was much, much younger than I am now.....quite a bigger deal at that time, 11 day hospital stay......Glad to hear yours was in and out. Makes you feel like you've got bonus time in a way. So there's all that much more diving to do!
My surgeon's name was COFFIN.
My name is GRAVES.
I survived it.
Life is good.....

 

[detroit diver]

I had a PFO repaired when I was much, much younger than I am now.....quite a bigger deal at that time, 11 day hospital stay......Glad to hear yours was in and out. Makes you feel like you've got bonus time in a way. So there's all that much more diving to do!
My surgeon's name was COFFIN.
My name is GRAVES.
I survived it.
Life is good.....

I assume yours was open heart. Wow. That's a rough procedure. I'm glad you made it thru okay.

Great names for this! There was a foot doctor a block from my office who's name was Smellsy!!

 

[The Chairman]

First off... get well you old coger!!! The water's not the same without you!!!

Secondly, I would have this checked, but many have indicated that I have no heart, and thus could not have a PFO. Seriously, I have extremely low blood pressure and pulse rate, so I tend to overly suspect my cardio system.

 

[detroit diver]

First off... get well you old coger!!! The water's not the same without you!!!

Secondly, I would have this checked, but many have indicated that I have no heart, and thus could not have a PFO. Seriously, I have extremely low blood pressure and pulse rate, so I tend to overly suspect my cardio system.

Thanks. Until this week, the water was frozen solid, so I didn't feel so bad. It was 68 degrees today, and all the lakes are opening up. NOW I'm going crazy...!

 

[crispos]

An interesting post. But it doesn't make sense. If 30% of the population had an open PFO, and stressful diving caused the nitrogen laden blood to bypass to the brain without offgassing, we should be experiencing a much greater incidence of DCS II. But we're not.

I wish I had access to more DCI studies. But one study of the incidence of DCI, The Abacus Study done in British Columbia from Oct 1, 1999 to Nov 30, 2000 reported 14 cases of DCI from 146,291 tank fills (i.e.) , an incidence of only 0.010%. And you know, with the cold water in B.C. requiring dry suits, and the strong tidal currents, there must be plenty of exertion required in B.C. diving. There were only 3 fatalities.
If PFO was a "clear and present danger" then many more people would be suffering stroke like embolisms from diving. It just ain't happening.

I think the military would also have data on this subject, given the strenuous dive training recruits must perform. All in all, I think quoting 30% of divers might be at risk of neurological DCS just does not agree with the empirical evidence that I'm aware of.

I certainly am not one to immediately reject any hypothesis, or go into denial. If the agencies are asleep, let's wake them up. But let's see some evidence this is a problem before we start frightening potential and new divers over a hypothetical danger. And, yes, I have lots of respect for George Irvine.

 

[detroit diver]

I think the problem lies in the facts that 1. there are so many "unexplained" incidents 2. Some are never reported 3. There is no central database (including DAN) for dive accidents and analysis and 4. Diagnosis is rather difficult, especially when one sees a doctor with no dive related experience.

The numbers of 30 percent of the population having PFO are not ones I've made up. They came from the cardiology departments at the hospital. One must naturally assume that the diving population is no different from the general population when it comes to this.

An interesting post. But it doesn't make sense. If 30% of the population had an open PFO, and stressful diving caused the nitrogen laden blood to bypass to the brain without offgassing, we should be experiencing a much greater incidence of DCS II. But we're not.

I wish I had access to more DCI studies. But one study of the incidence of DCI, The Abacus Study done in British Columbia from Oct 1, 1999 to Nov 30, 2000 reported 14 cases of DCI from 146,291 tank fills (i.e.) , an incidence of only 0.010%. And you know, with the cold water in B.C. requiring dry suits, and the strong tidal currents, there must be plenty of exertion required in B.C. diving. There were only 3 fatalities.
If PFO was a "clear and present danger" then many more people would be suffering stroke like embolisms from diving. It just ain't happening.

I think the military would also have data on this subject, given the strenuous dive training recruits must perform. All in all, I think quoting 30% of divers might be at risk of neurological DCS just does not agree with the empirical evidence that I'm aware of.

I certainly am not one to immediately reject any hypothesis, or go into denial. If the agencies are asleep, let's wake them up. But let's see some evidence this is a problem before we start frightening potential and new divers over a hypothetical danger. And, yes, I have lots of respect for George Irvine.

 

[boomx5]

Excellent post. I actually just read it over on Quest but decided to respond over here. So, how long till you can make a full recovery and get back to diving?

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Thanks, Jack. Good Post. Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

I also may need to move this test up on my list of things to do eventually...