"Piece of Paper Syndrome"

[iztok]

I came to a conclusion Gambitt is a

 

[Hoomi]

Clearly, there is a familiarity factor involved here. It's easier to trust someone we've known for years, and had the opportunity to witness their skills in action, than to trust someone we've just met. Certifications can help foster confidence in someone we don't know that well, but do they really add much to our confidence in someone we already trust implicitly?

How many of us actually took the time to examine the instructor cert cards for those we took lessons from? To be honest, I pretty much just assumed that the Dive Shop took care of verifying the certs of our instructors. I never actually looked at the "piece of paper" myself. Was that truly wise? Maybe. Maybe not. Assuming can be a very dangerous thing.

I know of a guy who recently was pulled over for DUI. In the course of the arrest, the officer found that this man's driver's license had been suspended over 14 years ago, and yet, despite holding a job that required him to periodically drive people under his company's care, the company had never been notified his license was suspended, and hadn't performed any kind of regular verification of their employee's driving status. The liability issues of this are staggering - if this man had been involved in an accident in a company vehicle, even if the accident had been one that he had no control over, his lack of license would have automatically put him at fault, and opened the company to horrendous lawsuits.

If a company like that could overlook something as simple as verifying a driver's license, is it really that far fetched to think a dive shop could overlook verifying instructor certs? You'd hope they wouldn't, but how many of us have made any effort to verify for ourselves? How much different is it to trust someone we know to mentor us through a new experience, versus trusting someone we don't know when they tell us they have the certification?

This has been an interesting exchange. For those of us that have promoted the importance of the "piece of paper," I have to wonder if it's really been important enough that we've asked to see it. If it really is that important, shouldn't we?

 

[boulderjohn]

If a company like that could overlook something as simple as verifying a driver's license, is it really that far fetched to think a dive shop could overlook verifying instructor certs?

The certifying agency (at least this is true of PADI) will not provide a C-card to a diver unless the instructor is currently in good standing. I discovered that very clearly this year when a paperwork snafu resulted in PADI thinking I was not currently certified.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

I came to a conclusion Gambitt is a

I was wondering when someone would post this. It was obvious by page 3.

 

[rollerboi]

2) He did spend the night before the dive, showing me how the gear worked, and what to expect and what to to in a worst-case scenario. Yes, I had "never seen the gear before", but I have read up thoroughly on the concepts involved. (Kinda like you do, before your first open-water)

I think this is probably the most important thing to note. You received training, more than just "this is what this button does." Certifications aside, this is the important part.

(Sidebar: In the opinions of many here, myself included, you probably learned just enough to get yourself killed, since neither you nor he sound fully qualified to deal with every contingency relating to a rebreather. Training is more than how to operate the equipment, it's practice for dealing with that "oh ****" moment when it happens. Nobody really knows what they don't know, and a sense of false security is worse than none at all.)

You were originally coming across as advocating "trust me" dives with little to no training, and that's where you were dead wrong.

 

[nwdiver2]

That’s just dumb, without staged intro to new equipment and concepts your friend of 40 years may have easily killed you, then he wouldn’t be a friend, just dumb.

 

[Walter]

I was wondering when someone would post this. It was obvious by page 3.

I'm only half way down page 2....

 

[ktomlinson]

Granted, in a fighter plane, it's rather difficult to get far enough away from the controls, that you can't quickly take the stick back and recover things before it becomes a catastrophe.

Unfortunately, not all dive buddies stay that close.

Are you a pilot too?

 

[Hoomi]

Are you a pilot too?

Nope. I did, however, work on a few fighters in the USAF, which required spending some time in the cockpit. There isn't a lot of spare room inside fighters, and no way for the pilot to leave the seat during flight without leaving the entire aircraft. Unlike large cargo or passenger aircraft, in which the pilot could get up from his seat, visit the head, chat with passengers or flight attendants, grab a snack, etc., the pilot in a fighter is always going to be within reach of the controls. Herk could let someone else take the stick and try flying the aircraft for a few minutes, knowing as he does that if the person cannot handle it, he can quickly take control back.

Frankly, I'd give my eye teeth for a ride in a fighter, whether or not I got to try flying it for a few minutes. It really torques me when I see news stories where they take journalists who are critical of the military up for rides, but the guys who helped keep the aircraft in good condition never got the chance.

 

[Hoomi]

The certifying agency (at least this is true of PADI) will not provide a C-card to a diver unless the instructor is currently in good standing.

I knew that as I was posting it, but if we were getting instruction from someone who wasn't actually certified as an instructor, would we know BEFORE the SNAFU in getting our cert cards?