Pony bottle & recreational diving...Need input...

[peterbj7]

if you want to strap on three tanks, two knifes, a pair of scissors, 3 spear guns, one of those Co2 injector things, 5 light sticks, a big flashlight, a small flashlight, an extra mask, a whistle, a mirror, and some arm floaties, then I say go for it

I don't think mocking is constructive or called for. Generally accepted good practice on appropriate dives is to carry two knives (preferably small and carefully located), a small lamp is useful even on an open ocean day dive, and an extra mask in a group can be a life saver. And so can a redundant air source.

If you take a spear gun scuba diving in Belize or in a number of other countries you'll have your card confiscated, and probably worse.

 

[peterbj7]

The last thing I always do before putting my arm through the BCD is check that both valves are ON, and that is done AFTER checking both tank pressures

It's actually better practice to carry your pony so that you can reach the valve underwater, then before entry pressurise it and check the pressure, but then turn the valve off (leaving it pressurised). That way you won't lose the contents if you have a slow leak or if something goes wrong under water. You want to turn the air on and off again periodically during the dive to ensure it remains pressurised, to avoid any chance of water getting into the tank or first stage. This is standard practice with additional tanks carried as stage tanks, and it's the best way to handle a pony.

Another reason for having the whole pony accessible is so that you can unclip it and hand it off to someone who may need it. On all the dives I've done with a pony I've never used it myself, but another needy diver has done.

 

[Splash-X]

Peter has a good point. When I take a pony when we do deep dives it is always mounted upside down so the valves are easy to reach to turn off and I can easily unclip it and hand it to a buddy if needed. I dive with it turned off so that there is no risk of free flow.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

I keep mine on until I am a bit more comfortable with it. I don't disagree with Peter's reasoning at all, it's just at this point in time risk-benefit, I figure that the chances of:
- the pony emptying
- me not noticing (on a slung pony)
- this happening on the exact dive when I need the pony (unlike tech diving, your pony emptying in itself isn't catastrophic, as long as you don't need it)

all happening on the same dive are less likely than the chance that I need the pony and somehow screw up turning it on (risk-benefit). In the future when I am more comfortable and have practice using the valve, I may leave it off. However, I think leaving it off is more so something that came from the tech world where the reasons are stronger for leaving it turned off, so I'm in no rush to switch to this method.

 

[simmonsjr]

I don't think mocking is constructive or called for. Generally accepted good practice on appropriate dives is to carry two knives (preferably small and carefully located), a small lamp is useful even on an open ocean day dive, and an extra mask in a group can be a life saver. And so can a redundant air source.

If you take a spear gun scuba diving in Belize or in a number of other countries you'll have your card confiscated, and probably worse.

Don't take the post out of context. The original post that you deride as sarcasm is as follows:

This kind of discussion is similiar to one you can find in the gun community. Some hunters wonder why some people carry concealed weapons. Some people that carry concealed feel that all you need is a good old snubby 5 shot .38, and think that anyone who carries a hi-capacity auto is going overboard. Then some of the guys carrying around a hi-cap auto think that people carrying two concealed guns are whack jobs and that two concealed weapons really only need to be carried by people who have a higher risk of confrontation, like cops that have tasered one to many people.

It is your life man, if you want to strap on three tanks, two knifes, a pair of scissors, 3 spear guns, one of those Co2 injector things, 5 light sticks, a big flashlight, a small flashlight, an extra mask, a whistle, a mirror, and some arm floaties, then I say go for it. It is your life and your are ultimately responsible for it.

There is no sarcasm here. The post pretty clearly states that you should bring along any equipment that you feel that is necessary in order to provide for your safety. What you mistook for mockery is an example of hyperbole - exaggerating the details in order to drive a point home.

The point that is being made is that while others may see redundancy as going overboard you have both a right and a responsibility to do whatever you feel is necessary to provide for your personal safety. Others may say that such precautions are unnecessary, and they might be for them. You may be talked out of a precaution, such as the pony bottle in this case, or your skills and confidence may grow to the point that you are ready to forego it, but while you feel that you need it then it becomes necessary for you.

Jason

 

[peterbj7]

Fair comment, Jason. I was having my doubts, but when I got to the bit about "some arm floaties" I decided that yes, "tyesai" was having a laugh at someone's expense. There's been an awful lot of that here lately. I'm quite happy to accept that I was wrong. Heavens - we might even get back to serious discussion of people's genuine dive concerns!

 

[peterbj7]

I keep mine on until I am a bit more comfortable with it. I don't disagree with Peter's reasoning at all, it's just at this point in time risk-benefit, I figure that the chances of:
- the pony emptying
- me not noticing (on a slung pony)
- this happening on the exact dive when I need the pony (unlike tech diving, your pony emptying in itself isn't catastrophic, as long as you don't need it)

all happening on the same dive are less likely than the chance that I need the pony and somehow screw up turning it on (risk-benefit). In the future when I am more comfortable and have practice using the valve, I may leave it off. However, I think leaving it off is more so something that came from the tech world where the reasons are stronger for leaving it turned off, so I'm in no rush to switch to this method.

That's fine - you should do what you feel comfortable with. Just a couple of comments though - tanks CAN empty themselves through a small leak, especially small ones (tanks), and a tank mounted behind you where you can't see it can fall off without your even knowing. If yours is firmly attached then it probably won't happen,but I've seen tanks stowed in fabric pony bottle tubes simply fall out when the diver inverted if (s)he forgot to tighten the draw string around the neck. Or they can work loose over time. Granted that what I said does relate more to the tech world and probably started there, but these practices developed for good reason.

 

[gcbryan]

I’m in a bit of a quandary. I have 38 dives now and am taking AOW. My instructor whom I like but who is a self confessed minimalist – doesn’t want glow sticks in night dive training for example), also does not like the 19 cu ft pony I usually wear attached to my main steel 100 with a “x bracket”, with a small Aeris Ion regulator clipped to the BCD. It’s a lot of comfort to me as a newer diver even though I have no intention at this time to exceed any of the recreational diver limits. He says I can keep it on if I must but he would prefer than within rec diving limits I minimize extra gear, trust what I have (Oceanic Delta 4 primary reg, never diving in water below 47 degrees), stay streamlined, etc. I have good air consumption – usually below 0.50 cu ft/min, often around 0.45 unless I am working hard on something, so I don’t have a lot of good arguments to keep it except for “what if” and “I take comfort in it”. Opinions?

Even though I sling a bottle on all/most dives I agree with your instructor to a point. I think it would be good for you to be comfortable and get used to diving (as a new diver) without a pony. It may be a crutch in the sense that you have no experience without it. You should be reasonably comfortable without it. If you chose to use one after that (as I did) then I wouldn't call it a crutch but rather just a redundant choice.
In my case I didn't use one until I had a hundred or so dives.

I agree with the instructor regarding tank lights/chemical sticks as well. Chem sticks are bad for the environment if they are left behind, they shouldn't be necessary as in you shouldn't be behind your buddy and if you can't see them by their dive light of what use is a tank light and in many cases it's just a crutch and an annoyance to other divers...particularly flashing strobe tank lights....you don't need a light on your tank...you need one in your hand.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

That's fine - you should do what you feel comfortable with. Just a couple of comments though - tanks CAN empty themselves through a small leak, especially small ones (tanks), and a tank mounted behind you where you can't see it can fall off without your even knowing. If yours is firmly attached then it probably won't happen,but I've seen tanks stowed in fabric pony bottle tubes simply fall out when the diver inverted if (s)he forgot to tighten the draw string around the neck. Or they can work loose over time.

Well I sling it, so if I didn't notice it falling off me, I'd have bigger problems While a small leak that I don't notice right below me I suppose isn't impossible, the odds of it happening on a dive when I need the pony seems very low.

Granted that what I said does relate more to the tech world and probably started there, but these practices developed for good reason.

Oh for sure, I mean obviously if you lose all your deco gas, that's a major emergency I assume (with the little I know about tech). No doubt in this situation it's better to leave it off. But for a rec bailout bottle, if you lose a ton of gas and notice, simply abort the dive. If you don't notice, then hopefully statistics rule in your favour and not Murphy's law (statistically chance of pony emptying and you needing that pony that dive almost 0). Which is why I have no trouble leaving mine on, but as I said, in time I wouldn't mind moving towards the tech way of thinking.

 

[TSandM]

I think this is one of the most basic questions of diving: How do I cope with a catastrophic loss of gas? It's unlikely to happen, but if it does, it could be the last thing that ever happens to you. We all SHOULD think about it, and decide on a strategy for coping with it. That strategy will be shaped in part by the environment in which we dive. People who don't have regular dive buddies, or who travel and climb on boats with strangers, may make very different decisions from the ones I have made. But I dive primarily with highly trained and very conscientious buddies, and when I don't, I dive doubles for self-rescue.

But a variety of decisions are valid. Spare Airs are not, because there isn't enough gas in them to be useful. Back-mounted ponies have significant issues, in that you can't reach the valve, and you can't see any leaks. Slung bottles require gear you can sling them on, but are probably one of the nicest options, because you can see the valve and the reg, and you can easily hand the bottle off to someone if they need it (assuming THEY have a place to put it.)

But at any rate, I'm not going to criticize someone's decision to use a pony bottle, because they may not be in a position to elect other options.