pony bottles

[Nemrod]

Yeah, Mike, I got to go to work and not dissagreeing with you or Jeff about the other purposes of buddies--but--we are talking about the pony and not the utility uses of a buddy.

The dive I described could have occurred on day three of a resort trip with a perfectly typical resort buddy using typical gear.

I am sorry---I can carry on a pony but I just have not figured out how to always bring the "TEAM" with me. Don't like 90 feet--them make it 60 feet--same thing.

Do something else other dive which is possibly why you have gone half way around the world--hah---you go bungee jumping or whatever--I am going diving--lol.

N<--- dang the torpedoes, full speed ahead

 

[Web Monkey]

Just because some people use the tool incorrectly does not make the tool a bad idea when it is being used for the correct purpose for what it was intended. Following your logic hammers are bad because some people pound in screws with them.

While switching to a pony before running OOA is a nice idea, if the diver was watching their air close enough to do this, they wouldn't have run out in the first place.

Terry

 

[JeffG]

Yeah, Mike, I got to go to work and not dissagreeing with you or Jeff about the other purposes of buddies--but--we are talking about the pony and not the utility uses of a buddy.

The only "real" problem I have with ponies, is that it seems to be the wonder piece of hardware. It seem to be an easy solution to some divers. They just have to "buy" it and they are done...they are now "safe".

In reality, they have a solution to one...maybe 2 underwater problems. Its not the end all and be all. It does have some uses, but its not a blanket solution.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Just because some people use the tool incorrectly does not make the tool a bad idea when it is being used for the correct purpose for what it was intended. Following your logic hammers are bad because some people pound in screws with them.

No. What some of have tried to stress in this thread is that this tool doesn't necessarily solve the problems they are having. It's more comparable to having your house falling down and without learning how to fix anything or buying any other tools, only getting yourself a big hammer. I wouldn't tell them that the hammer is bad but I would tell them that they still have big problems.

No question about that if it is a good buddy but air is pretty damn important and like like to be self sufficent in that area. Yes with insta-buddies I prepare myself as if it is a solo dive although in these cases I also have the additional responsility toward the insta-buddy.

Patient..."Doc, it hurts when I do this"
Doc..."Well don't do it"

I'm pretty confident I can prevent this insta-buddy from getting me hurt but I've had to drag too many divers out and direct traffic for to many ambulances. It's just no fun anymore.

 

[grf88]

Good answer.

Now lets go out to some dive site and see how many single tank recreational divers can reach back and shut their valve down. Most have their valve about the middle of their back and don't have any idea that it's even a good idea TO be able to reach it let alone have practiced it. Lets have them try it midwater and see how many end up on the surface before they even get a hand on the valve.

Next lets see how many of them have ever tried feathering a valve or even know what the term means.

Then maybe it would be more productive if the pony detractors, rather than just condeming pony's out of hand should outline the skills that should be mastered to use one correctly for a diver that wishes to be self reliant in this regard and does not want to rely on a buddy for life sustaining air.

 

[JeffG]

does not want to rely on a buddy for life sustaining air.

If you don't want to rely on a buddy....get a pony. But it will only do so much for you. Understand the dangers, accept the risk and go dive. (just like any other diving, just that a solo diving pony bottle diver has different risks than a DIR team dive.)

 

[grf88]

While switching to a pony before running OOA is a nice idea, if the diver was watching their air close enough to do this, they wouldn't have run out in the first place.

Terry

A pony is in case of equipment failure, not as a substitute for watching your gauge. Yes, equipment does fail which is probably why some divers have an isolation valve on their manifold.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yeah, Mike, I got to go to work and not dissagreeing with you or Jeff about the other purposes of buddies--but--we are talking about the pony and not the utility uses of a buddy.

The dive I described could have occurred on day three of a resort trip with a perfectly typical resort buddy using typical gear.

I am sorry---I can carry on a pony but I just have not figured out how to always bring the "TEAM" with me. Don't like 90 feet--them make it 60 feet--same thing.

I cheated and married my favorite dive buddy. I trained my son to be darned good one and a bunch of my diving friends and aquiantences are pretty handy to have around.

Do something else other dive which is possibly why you have gone half way around the world--hah---you go bungee jumping or whatever--I am going diving--lol.

N<--- dang the torpedoes, full speed ahead

It's definately something that I want to address before going half way around the world only to end up not diving or doing dives that I wished I hadn't done. I've been in situations where just being in the vicinity was unpleasant and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on that.

A discussion of some ways of approaching this would probably make a good thread all by itself. In short, I'm not much of a resort person but I've netwerked with enough divers over the years that in addition to setting up planes, hotels and boats I could set it up to have someone to dive with too just about anyplace that I'd be going. Some of those divers I've dived with and others, I only know by reputation. Some get aquainted water time might still be in order but I wouldn't be going into it blind.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Then maybe it would be more productive if the pony detractors, rather than just condeming pony's out of hand should outline the skills that should be mastered to use one correctly for a diver that wishes to be self reliant in this regard and does not want to rely on a buddy for life sustaining air.

I think if you look back through my posts over the years you'll see that I've spent an awful lot of time discussing what skills divers should have and why.

Unfortunately, the reality of the climate in which we are discussing this is one where divers are certified after spending only a few hours in the water with most of that time spent on their knees. ok, maybe they do an AOW course and go to 60+ ft and sit for a few minutes. Then they go to a resort someplace where they are diving too deep and in conditions otherwise inappropriate for their knowedge and skill level with other divers who are in the same situation. When they do, they don't feel comfortable or they have real problems. Sometimes the first thought is to get a pony bottle without even knowing what other things they should be getting squared away. Throwing pony bottles at this isn't going to help.

 

[Nemrod]

My wife is a very good diver. I don't take her on some of my bolder adventures, I am known to not always "play safe". As I have said before, safety is not always my highest priority. In such adventures my wife does not come along, she would not have been at 235 feet with me for example and your right, I did not have a pony on that dive either.

All the equipment and training in the world do a diver no good at all if he does not have the discipline to implement that knowledge and stick to a dive plan. It is as simple as that.

Howabout we not have any more pony threads for the "usual" suspects--lol--for at least a week. I get deja vu with all these threads and forget who I am in a fuss with at the moment--ha-ha.

N