Pony freeflow

[matt_unique]

I dive frequently with a pony. I have in the past used it backmounted and now I usually sling it. Both ways have their pros and cons. To stay on topic, when I backmount the pony I keep the 2nd stage on my chest so would I notice a freeflow and I have never had one underwater. On water entry it is the same as any other reg, ocassionally it will freeflow but I just flip it down. I have used several different regs on my pony including, scubapro, oceanic, seaquest and sherwood. I don't use a high performance reg on my pony. My ponies are 20 and 30 CF so a little air loss from a quickly noticed freeflow would not be a problem anyhow.

Loosing my backup from a pony freeflow is at the bottom of my list of concerns on any given dive. If I was worried I would sling it with the valve off or use doubles.

TT

Good point TT - I want to add that when I dive with a pony I always have the 2nd stage on my chest where you would immediately notice bubbles from a free flow.

--Matt

 

[Rick Inman]

As a partial answer to your question --

I teach open water students in frigid (40F) water. We don't give them back mounted pony's, but they do have standard second stage octopus regulators. These are medium quality regulators not specifically designed for cold water (yes I'm aware of cold water regulators and use them myself; this is rental gear . . .).

It's a rare weekend when we don't have a couple of free flows that need to be addressed. This is no big deal since we might lose a cube or two before getting it under control.

However with a small pony bottle, if your bailout margins are small and/or if you don't notice the free flow as quickly due to the location of the 3rd second stage then you might be counting no a resource which is no longer viable.

Bingo.
Last week, my buddy was wearing a full face mask and his (my) BKUP gas was a 19cf pony. The water temp was 38f, and sure enough, I come over the side of the wreck and look down at him and there are bubbles coming from him everywhere. It takes me a moment to realize his pony (my bkup gas) is blowing full blast, and by the time I get some communication going with him, the gas is all gone.
He should have had an octo as well, but of course he didn't, since he's got that Air2 thingy he likes so much, which I can just see myself trying to breath off of (he gets my long hose primary Atomic M1, and I get his Air2 - not fair!). So, of course, we call the dive.
It made me realize that, I never really checked my buddies pony pressure before the dive, and as far as I know, he could have had 200PSI.
Hummm... I see a change coming...

 

[moneysavr]

I dive with my pony with a sherwood reg on my chest=charged,I see the set ups with tank down and hose & Reg bungeed to tank-valve off,but i think charged.
I like to enter water and part of dive plan to do a 360 spin leak test,and have your buddy give a look over to prior to decent,
This is a hot topic,for me in a cold water dive I like to have a source of air in case anything fails real quick!! and no need to look or turn valves on,I also have a octo in the triangle lower side=if I need it also,Its all rec,it works great within rec limits,and yes i use it-test it out, and my dive shop tops it for free if i need it.
I have seen a pony freeflow after a purge at depth,that was not needed. and a buddys quick action turn gas off then on fixed it.
Freeflows after you enter the water also can be fixed as one diver said by having the crack adj on the reg,just ask your dive shop. since its not your main reg,I cheat and cycle both my regs the same brand from my main to pony,and the pony reg Hits a bit stiff,but I can tell

 

[matt_unique]

Bingo.
Last week, my buddy was wearing a full face mask and his (my) BKUP gas was a 19cf pony. The water temp was 38f, and sure enough, I come over the side of the wreck and look down at him and there are bubbles coming from him everywhere. It takes me a moment to realize his pony (my bkup gas) is blowing full blast, and by the time I get some communication going with him, the gas is all gone.
He should have had an octo as well, but of course he didn't, since he's got that Air2 thingy he likes so much, which I can just see myself trying to breath off of (he gets my long hose primary Atomic M1, and I get his Air2 - not fair!). So, of course, we call the dive.
It made me realize that, I never really checked my buddies pony pressure before the dive, and as far as I know, he could have had 200PSI.
Hummm... I see a change coming...

An Air 2 diver donates his primary reg to you. He breathes off his Air 2.

***** can happen to anyone for sure. Did you/he figure out if he did not notice the bubbles or did he have difficulty solving the problem? Was his pony mounted in such a way that he could access the valve? You also said a few times his pony was your backup gas. Were the two of you sharing the pony as an emergency supply of gas?

Not in any way a knock just curious.

--Matt

 

[DA Aquamaster]

An Air 2 diver donates his primary reg to you. He breathes off his Air 2.

Well, yes an Air 2 diver donates the primary.

But in this case, the primary is attached to the diver's Full Face Mask. So to donate the primary he would need to donate the whole FFM, which would require the OOA diver to remove his mask and don the FFM before getting to breathe and would also require the donating diver to switch to a backup mask, which he hopefully has.

So in short FFM and AIR 2 are not compatible in the same configuration. With a full face mask, an octo on a long hose is required equipment.

 

[matt_unique]

Well, yes an Air 2 diver donates the primary.

But in this case, the primary is attached to the diver's Full Face Mask. So to donate the primary he would need to donate the whole FFM, which would require the OOA diver to remove his mask and don the FFM before getting to breathe and would also require the donating diver to switch to a backup mask, which he hopefully has.

So in short FFM and AIR 2 are not compatible in the same configuration. With a full face mask, an octo on a long hose is required equipment.

Yes of course.....read too quickly over that detail. In this instance the diver was not equipped to provide any source of air to a buddy. He should definitely have something to donate.

--Matt

 

[Rick Inman]

Yes of course.....read too quickly over that detail. In this instance the diver was not equipped to provide any source of air to a buddy. He should definitely have something to donate.

--Matt

Exactly. Last night he showed up with both the pony and an octo. Much better.
Oh, and he'd de-tuned his pony reg, so no free-flow.
Also, the air temp had warmed up to a balmy 42f!

 

[NEWreckDiver]

Sorry if I was unclear about causes - I'm looking for case specifics, not the standard laundry list of possibilities.

I am not sure if anyone has answered your question directly or not. I have a back mounted pony bottle which I used for over a hundred dives which the valve was left on in case it was needed and I never once had any type of freeflow. For receational diving, I recommend this type of configuration. It is easy to configure with the varity of tanks and BC that people use.

Good luck to you. DSAO

 

[lamont]

So in short FFM and AIR 2 are not compatible in the same configuration. With a full face mask, an octo on a long hose is required equipment.

this is probably a total hijack, but in that case would you secure the long hose around the head to the right chest d-ring with a break-away?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I normally use a bolt snap zip tied to a suitably sized o-ring that is placed around the base of the mouthpiece.

The o-ring is substantial enough to keep it on place during the dive, and in a normal situation you can unclip it from the D-ring in a normal fashion. But in a need-it-right-now situation or if mugged by an OOA diver, the mouthpiece will slip out of the o-ring. If you need to re-stow it underwater, it is also an easy matter to stretch the o-ring back over the mouthpiece. The o-ring normally does not break and will still be attached to the boltsnap which in turn won't go anywhere as it will still be snapped to the D-ring.

I do essentially the same thing with both regs when diving independent doubles to keep the not in use at the moment reg stowed and streamlined.