Poor/dangerous behavior by instructor (not mine) -- what to do?

[ktkt]

That reminds me, I ought to write a letter to the shop where I trained

(Tell them how much more I appreciate my instructors now that I know more and have seen a lot more divers and a few other instructors. I mean, I liked 'em in the first place, but these days, I think, "Wow, I had it good...")

 

[mathauck0814]

I write compliment and complaint letters to companies all the time

Well, I know I'm shocked...

Again, my guess is that the instructor thought it would be fun for you. Clearly he was mistaken. Is it really worth all this energy?

 

[ktkt]

Again, my guess is that the instructor thought it would be fun for you. Clearly he was mistaken. Is it really worth all this energy?

If you are experienced enough to train divers to penetrate wrecks, is it really okay to encourage someone to do it with no training? You seem to think I am overreacting, but this is not the sort of thing someone does ONCE.

 

[mathauck0814]

If you are experienced enough to train divers to penetrate wrecks, is it really okay to encourage someone to do it with no training? You seem to think I am overreacting, but this is not the sort of thing someone does ONCE.

You said yourself that it was a swimthrough that wasn't very far. That's not exactly "penetration". Folks "penetrate" the Speigel Grove in Key Largo every single day - in fact, many wrecks are prepared before sinking for just such an activity. You weren't comfortable going in - no one is contesting that you should have gone in. I'm saying you're making a mountain out of a molehill. The need to exact some form of revenge on a person who was (obviously, to me) trying to encourage you to do something that he thought was safe (and honestly, given your relative levels of experience I'm inclined to trust his judgement) and fun is foolish.

 

[ktkt]

You said yourself that it was a swimthrough that wasn't very far.

That's not exactly "penetration".​

I understand the swimthrough is "not exactly penetration". But a) I'll say it again, no means no, and you shouldn't have to be told twice, and b) he was actually asking me to penetrate the ship itself (that activity followed the swimthrough). It's quite possibly the easiest penetratable shipwreck anyone will ever see (not totally sure, as I was too busy with fish to get a good peek in the daytime), but it was still a true overhead environment, and he had no business encouraging me to go in without training. I would be willing to do a wreck penetration course on this particular ship with a competent instructor, but this guy was basically a bully, and I did not trust him at all.

 

[mathauck0814]

well... crusade on then, I guess.

 

[Jax]

ktkt . . . Could you perhaps take a step back, take a deep breath, and try looking at it from a different way?

When I was taking a sidemount course, my instructor invited me (underwater) into a cavern. I was astonished and signaled, "no". When we were done with the dive, he casually said, "An instructor can take you one level above your experience." :doh: I did not know that.

The instructor offered twice underwater an opportunity to expand your experience - a mild pinnacle, as it were. You stated that the instructor was your buddy's instructor. It may simply be that he was interested at offering your buddy, his former student, an opportunity to see what wreck training was like.

YOU felt 'pressured'. Are you so sure it wasn't just you feeling that way? How did your buddy feel? Seriously, he invited . . . you said no. Maybe you are also feeling resentment that he didn't take "no" the first time?

All in all, you made your statement, you notified the shop. More than that is not necessary, methinks.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Certainly I could have done things better, but the question remains -- what do you do when an instructor or divemaster is out of line? Of course, you do your best to safely get out of the situation first, but then what? I feel like if we just turn the other cheek and say "jerks will be jerks", that's nearly as bad as condoning their behavior, and it makes it more likely that things like this will keep happening.

First of all, it's great that you are actively questioning what an instructor or DMs tells you to do. You should. This kind of questioning is indicative of an assertive diver who takes responsibility for his own safety. It also protects you from making a tragic mistake should you encounter a dive pro that tells you to do something dangerous. Dive pros are human. As such, they make mistakes and experience lapses in judgment, just like anyone else. Some instructors/DMs are great, and some are pretty crappy. The ones that clearly place their students in danger should be confronted (tactfully to allow for the possibility of a misunderstanding/honest mistake) and, when appropriate, their employer/agency should be informed. Safety is paramount.

In analyzing what happened, I think it's helpful to see things through the eyes of the instructor in question.
Dive type: wreck dive with swim-throughs
People involved: instructor, wreck diving student, former student, and a diver with a fair amount of experience (50+ lifetime dives)
Cool factor: swim-throughs are fun, lots of divers really enjoy them
Perhaps the instructor thought very highly of you and your buddy's dive skills. In his mind, the swim-through presented an opportunity for the two of you to expand your dive experience a little. His insistence (and persistence) in asking you to do the swim-through might have simply reflected an enthusiastic desire to share the novelty of the experience with you.

Everyday scuba instructors coax students into pushing the boundaries of their comfort level. In extreme cases, some students progress from being afraid to breathe through the reg underwater to really enjoying the sport, so much so that they can't get enough of it. For many instructors, being able to facilitate that transition from anxiety/reluctance to pure joy/enthusiasm is perhaps the most gratifying aspect of teaching scuba. That being said, in this case, the instructor clearly misjudged your comfort level with the swim-through.

You seem to have a very negative opinion of the instructor in question. I can't help but think that this view was colored by your post-dive interaction with him. Having not been there, I don't know how you confronted him, what was said, and how he responded. It sounds like you were pretty emotional after the dive, and this may have set a contentious tone for the conversation. Maybe things would have gone better if everyone had been allowed to cool off a bit first.

 

[RTee]

Ktkt...not quite sure why you are asking the question when your mind seems to be already made up.

I tend to agree with with Mathauck and Jax on this one. You told the individual and his store. Not sure what you will accomplish (beside perhaps personal vendetta) by going further but I guess this is really up to you . One thing I have learn from experience is that it is always better to attempt to deal with conflict mano to mano with the concerned individual vs crusading and telling the world. Normally the latter will not solve anything and will just be a source of resentment for all involved.

 

[ktkt]

ktkt . . . Could you perhaps take a step back, take a deep breath, and try looking at it from a different way?
...
YOU felt 'pressured'. Are you so sure it wasn't just you feeling that way? How did your buddy feel? Seriously, he invited . . . you said no. Maybe you are also feeling resentment that he didn't take "no" the first time?

Jax, oh, I tried! I absolutely feel resentful that he he didn't take "no" the first time, the second time, or the third time, which was in the water, after which I made sure to put a good deal of physical space between me and him. And we are not talking a very simple peek into the wreck (at least not after the swimthrough). His plan was to go in the ship and then stir up the sand while we were already on a night dive. This instructor only met me right before the group got together to plan a dive, so he knew nothing at all about my experience, except that I have an AOW cert.

I was not alone in finding him pushy. My buddy was very eager to have me come along and stay outside the ship; otherwise, he'd have been swept up in their dive plan. A rather timid-seeming diver who decided not to come along told me later she was very relieved she skipped it after she saw him being really dismissive when I first said I didn't want to go inside.

If someone tells you very explicitly before going in the water "I already told you once, and I am telling you again now to emphasize it -- I am definitely not going inside the wreck," then going over to them and trying to point/motion them in is not really an invitation. It's trying to push your dive plan onto someone else when they very clearly told you they did not want that dive plan. I have been invited to do swimthroughs before, and an invitation is a lot nicer! (So far, I have taken all those invitations, but I like to go and pause right at the opening and get a feel for how much space I have before proceeding.)