Practice Dumping your in-line AltAir+Inflator - a Note to Divers

[Islandheart]

Wow, this is a sore spot with me. and this post is only 39 years of diving experience and more than a super big double hand-full of students.

Air2 or 3's what-ever you want to call them are in my .02 a danger. The streamlining issue is just non-sense, as has been said here already.

In a "Panic" situation, having two or both divers with 2nd's out of their mouths is asking for added trouble.

Most folks that use them don't spend the extra money to install a longer primary hose and thus, now your have that freaked diver 6-10" closer to you, vs a regular Octo, while you're trying to help.

The Air2-3 is less flexible than a normal hose and harder to bend and hold in your mouth, while you're dealing with that OOA diver.

Now add in controling your ascent with it, as this thread began....... remember your right hand is connected to the other diver and you can't use the right should dump with it.

Lastly, likely 80-90% of all student divers are taught with Octs....... and you're in that 10-20% they are unfamiliar with... AND THEY ARE IN PANIC....


Think about it ! and if you do make sure you practice all your skills with gloves on so you don't push the wrong in/de-flator....

 

[mselenaous]

To the OP, thanks for the descriptions and encouraging others to be more aware of AAS techniques.

This whole thread is a perfect example of why I think alternate/inflators are a bad idea. The LAST thing any brand-new diver needs is complication with ascending while air sharing.

And there's almost zero value to them vis-a-vie 'streamlining.' In the dive shop, sure, it sounds good to have one fewer of those pesky hoses, but in the water the reality is you're left with a longer-than-necessary corrugated hose, which is MUCH bulkier than a LP hose, and a bulkier-than-necessary inflator mechanism, which you have to use every time you want to inflate or dump air from the BC. How is that 'streamlined?'

They also require a non-standard LP inflator hose, usually do not breathe very well, and are generally more of a pain to service than simply another 2nd stage. Overall a perfect example of a dive industry product that is designed for sales, not actual use. IMO the only reason they don't have a far worse reputation is because actual emergencies are pretty rare, and so a relatively few number of divers actually get to see how badly they perform in relation to the bungied octo/long hose primary set up.

While I appreciate the fact that you're interested in training students to use them more effectively, IMO the best way to address students' needs in this case is to help them configure their gear in a much more practical manner.

This thread is about practical techniques for using an Air2, not a debate on the pros and cons of gear configuration choices. There are already many threads on that topic regarding Air2s. And while we may each have our personal preferences, each diver has to choose for themselves what their own configuration will be. Regardless of what you or I may choose, there are times when we may dive with individuals who have chosen different options. We all need to be more aware of how these choices function and practice those techniques. So that when an emergency situation occurs we automatically can switch modes without a panicked thought process escalating our crisis management skills into an incident. As halocline, pointed out, actual emergencies are rare. Practicing techniques to increase comfort level reduces that frequency.

Some of this exposure needs to be addressed by instructors with students in the overall discussion of primary vs. secondary donation as it applies to the various gear configs such as standard AAS, long hose, integrated AAS, bungied octos, and pony bottles. Some of this education should definitely be more thorough from the retailer, but then what car dealer cares if you know how to drive a stick-shift or not when they sell you car - you've got a driver's license, right?

And thirdly, this forum is for the free exchange of information to educate and promote safe diving. Whatever configuration you choose, practice using it often and watch what other configs are around you so that you will be prepared to respond expeditiously in any crisis.

 

[kevmiami]

Just getting back into diving (and had not really dove that much), but my new dive buddy (also the love of my life) is a very, very accomplished diver - good news and bad news. She is watching me like a hawk and coaching me very thoroughly - but it also means I'm pushing pretty fast to acquire skills, experience and perhaps move into situations I would become more accustomed to over a longer period of time on my own.

This post was a great heads-up; I had asked that we practice some buddy breathing and ER procedures, but it had never occurred to me to practice this situation, which quite frankly, seems like the most likely real life situation - one person is out of air, but you have enough together to ascend safely with a stop. Looking forward to practicing it on the next couple of dives - Thank You

p.s. More good news - I'm going to Bonaire in two weeks - Yippy!! Skippy!!!

 

[James R]

I have the Air2 on my Halcyon BP/W

I don't think it's an ideal setup, though. A long hose primary and bungee backup is far better and much easier. I was playing "victim" for my gf's Rescue Diver class after doing a mostly technical and rec dives in doubles last summer. My reaction to donate air to her in her out of gas scenario was the long hose over the head, but because I had my single tank rig and reg that didn't work too well since it wasn't a long hose! The instructor got a nice laugh at that and I had to hear about it later...

FWIW I can service an Air2 or an unbalanced 2nd in the same amount of time. Both are quite easy. The Air2 can inflate your BC faster than a generic inflator, too. Don't think so? Try it and see.

 

[halocline]

FWIW I can service an Air2 or an unbalanced 2nd in the same amount of time. Both are quite easy. The Air2 can inflate your BC faster than a generic inflator, too. Don't think so? Try it and see.

Good for you, but the average octo/inflator owner still has to either leave the BC as well as the reg or take the thing off the BC for service, that's what I meant about complicating service. As far being able to inflate your BC faster, that's hardly an advantage, is it? How about in a HP seat failure that results in free-flow through the inflator, or a stuck inflator valve...does having your BC uncontrollably fill up even faster sound like a good thing?

I realize that this thread was not started as the 1000000000000th 'octo/inflator-friend or foe' thread, and my comments were a bit of a highjack. But, that is in the nature of forums like this, and honestly, my idea about 'practical techniques' for octo/inflators is that the most practical technique would be to sell it.....

However, one thing that the OP did miss (or I missed him mentioning it) is the value of using a long primary hose with octo/inflators. Otherwise you're looking at sharing air on a 26-30" hose.....not a lot of fun, especially with an OOA diver who is likely to not be in his/her best state of mind.

 

[g1138]

I didn't want to clog the original post with too much methodology since that has already been stated many times in other posts. Rather this was just a PSA that divers who have the Air 2 practice using it actively during OOA ascents.

I'm would hope most divers would get their critical thinking caps on and realize that short primary hoses and roman handshakes during OOA ascents now become less ideal when using an Air 2.
I think the debate on proper configurations would be best suited to a separate post to avoid too much unsorted clutter.

If I were to try to cover the whole thing, opinions would start popping up and I'd probably have at least 3 posts in the original post.

Also in response to not being able to activate your shoulder dump when your right arm is linked with an OOA diver: You can pull the bobble with your left hand just fine.

 

[halocline]

I didn't want to clog the original post with too much methodology since that has already been stated many times in other posts. Rather this was just a PSA that divers who have the Air 2 practice using it actively during OOA ascents.

I'm would hope most divers would get their critical thinking caps on and realize that short primary hoses and roman handshakes during OOA ascents now become less ideal when using an Air 2.

Thanks for posting this thread...it is useful, and once again sorry for sort-of highjacking.

Now throw away that air2.....

 

[kevmiami]

It seems people get real hung up on their own equipment - it's easy to forget the person you are diving with, or end up surfacing with, may have a completely different setup and may never have practiced any kind of ER situation. Makes sense to practice with different equipment and/or different buddies. This was a very, very good OP

 

[James R]

Good for you, but the average octo/inflator owner still has to either leave the BC as well as the reg or take the thing off the BC for service, that's what I meant about complicating service. As far being able to inflate your BC faster, that's hardly an advantage, is it? How about in a HP seat failure that results in free-flow through the inflator, or a stuck inflator valve...does having your BC uncontrollably fill up even faster sound like a good thing?

Usually when someone starts a reply with a sarcastic "good for you" like you have here, I don't even bother reading it, but it's a slow morning. What you say you meant is not what you said, which was the following:

and are generally more of a pain to service than simply another 2nd stage.

It's common for me too that I put something like that and mean one thing and it's taken a different way. So I will agree with you that having to bring in the BC (preferred) vs removing the Air2 for service can be a bit more of a pain, if you think carrying a BC with your reg is a pain. This whole thing is really all personal perspective, so let's drop it here.

Have you ever had to do a real rescue in your time as a DM? I will tell you from personal experience that getting a diver with a ridiculous 94lb OMS wing for his single AL80 fully inflated to where his head was fully out of the water, any advantage in getting that wing filled faster I will take. Sure, it's not a huge amount of time but in a real situation I'll take it. I don't expect that will ever happen again, though, to be fair. Plus anyone with a 94lb wing for a single AL80 I wonder about anyway...

I don't think a failure of the HP seat would lead to inflation of the BCD with an AIR2 unless the Air2 also had a stuck inflator as well. The retainer seat & o-ring prevent that from happening. It would free flow, though, just like any other 2nd.

Like I wrote before, yes I have one. No, I don't think it's ideal or even a good solution. A lot of the divers that talk about streamlining look like a Christmas tree in the water with lights, spg, and who knows what else hanging off of them anyway.

One of the LDS here have them on all their rental BCDs, and sell them in the shop. Customer trains with it = customer buys it. Do they know better? Probably not. I don't work at the LDS, so I don't know (or care) if the Air2 type setup with the BCD has a higher margin for them or not.

Personally I ended up with one b/c I got a deal on a complete set of gear back in the day. I wouldn't buy another, though.

 

[g1138]

Thanks for posting this thread...it is useful, and once again sorry for sort-of highjacking.

Now throw away that air2.....

Hey that Air 2 cost me a lot of money. I'll keep it on my shelf until I find someone who will buy it off me.