Primary cause of preventable scuba deaths...poor judgment?

[LeadTurn_SD]

Knowone,

That one's a keeper.

And just when I thought haiku was your preferred scuba medium.

Sigh. I'll try harder to keep up.

Best wishes.

Edit: Actually, you and Mike need to collaborate.... I'll translate (for a small fee)....

 

[Mike Boswell]

Haiku? Did someone say "Haiku"?

"In A Diver's Heaven"

My Backplate and Wing!
Cousteau approves, then frowns at
Your Poodle Jacket.

 

[Selchie in LB]

I have to be the flame thrower here: DIR people practice drills all the time. DIR people do an in water check even after the on shore/deck check. DIR people don't dive with unsafe divers, which is probably why some unsafe divers dive solo. I don't have the link here, but an unsafe diver per DIR is not just a recreational diver. There several attributes.

OK so it is not to say that DIR divers never get into trouble. In fact I have read their posts here. Have heard of DIRs turning off valves underwater just to drill. There was a thread not too long ago about realistic training such as turning off someones gas, snatching their mask, snatching a fin. There were other antics suggested. But seriously, what about over weighting someone and having a trainee react to get them before they fall to the bottom which is 175 feet? Even buddy breathing. Everyone says an OOA diver is going to grab your regulator not your octo. So if I grab your regulator, what are you going to do?

I think that just because you pay your money, you shouldn't automatically get certified. How about a partial refund? How a report to the dive certification agency that this person shouldn't be certified? Oow I bet that's better than saying DIR

I do agree though that diving is not and should not be taken lightly. What are the demographics in terms of male, female and age range? I started trying to look up statistics for other activities such as sky diving, motorcycle riding street and off road, and other demanding sports/hobbies. I should start that again and try to compare.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Haiku? Did someone say "Haiku"?

"In A Diver's Heaven"

My Backplate and Wing!
Cousteau approves, then frowns at
Your Poodle Jacket.

Priceless!

Best wishes.

 

[gcbryan]

I have to be the flame thrower here: DIR people practice drills all the time. DIR people do an in water check even after the on shore/deck check. DIR people don't dive with unsafe divers, which is probably why some unsafe divers dive solo. I don't have the link here, but an unsafe diver per DIR is not just a recreational diver. There several attributes.

OK so it is not to say that DIR divers never get into trouble. In fact I have read their posts here. Have heard of DIRs turning off valves underwater just to drill. There was a thread not too long ago about realistic training such as turning off someones gas, snatching their mask, snatching a fin. There were other antics suggested. But seriously, what about over weighting someone and having a trainee react to get them before they fall to the bottom which is 175 feet? Even buddy breathing. Everyone says an OOA diver is going to grab your regulator not your octo. So if I grab your regulator, what are you going to do?

I think that just because you pay your money, you shouldn't automatically get certified. How about a partial refund? How a report to the dive certification agency that this person shouldn't be certified? Oow I bet that's better than saying DIR

I do agree though that diving is not and should not be taken lightly. What are the demographics in terms of male, female and age range? I started trying to look up statistics for other activities such as sky diving, motorcycle riding street and off road, and other demanding sports/hobbies. I should start that again and try to compare.

The differences between scuba and other activities (IMHO) is that in most other activities there is natural selection going on (for want of a better term). In diving the bar is low. Therefore in accident reports you will find a large number in the poor judgment category and a small number in the you screwed up a bit but your luck ran out as well category. In other activities there is no large category of poor judgment but you still have the small number of you screwed up a bit/bad luck/etc.

The lowest common denominator is higher in the other activities as everyone is more fit/serious/whatever. You don't have people rock climbing who don't have a clue. You do have that in diving. That's the difference to me.

So the mass sport aspect of scuba is the difference (IMO).

 

[spoolin01]

The lowest common denominator is higher in the other activities as everyone is more fit/serious/whatever. You don't have people rock climbing who don't have a clue. You do have that in diving. That's the difference to me.

I think the analogy would be better if you broadened it to hiking in the mountains, rather than rock climbing. I've done both and they're not in the same league, unless you also equate walking a mountain trail with climbing a face.

 

[TSandM]

I suspect there are a lot of folks out there who share the characteristics of DIR divers that tend to prevent accidents. That is, they plan their dives, manage their gas, match their skills to the dive at hand, and stay with their buddies. They maintain their equipment and stay reasonably fit. The only reason one can point at DIR divers is because they have OTHER characteristics that make them identifiable as a group. But they are a subgroup of what I would call thoughtful divers, and I don't think thoughtful divers end up very often in accident reports.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have to be the flame thrower here: DIR people practice drills all the time. DIR people do an in water check even after the on shore/deck check. DIR people don't dive with unsafe divers, which is probably why some unsafe divers dive solo. I don't have the link here, but an unsafe diver per DIR is not just a recreational diver. There several attributes.

OK so it is not to say that DIR divers never get into trouble. In fact I have read their posts here. Have heard of DIRs turning off valves underwater just to drill. There was a thread not too long ago about realistic training such as turning off someones gas, snatching their mask, snatching a fin. There were other antics suggested. But seriously, what about over weighting someone and having a trainee react to get them before they fall to the bottom which is 175 feet? Even buddy breathing. Everyone says an OOA diver is going to grab your regulator not your octo. So if I grab your regulator, what are you going to do?

I think that just because you pay your money, you shouldn't automatically get certified. How about a partial refund? How a report to the dive certification agency that this person shouldn't be certified? Oow I bet that's better than saying DIR

I do agree though that diving is not and should not be taken lightly. What are the demographics in terms of male, female and age range? I started trying to look up statistics for other activities such as sky diving, motorcycle riding street and off road, and other demanding sports/hobbies. I should start that again and try to compare.

OK ... so I'm wondering what any of this has to do with DIR ...

Anybody can practice their skills ... they should, in fact. Tomorrow I'll be going out with a couple of friends to do just that. They're not DIR. I'm not either ... although I have had some DIR training. It really just boils down to whether or not you think getting more comfortable with your diving through skills practice is important. If you think so, then you will ... whether your training came from an agency with a three-letter acronym or a four-letter acronym.

How you approach your diving's going to depend on a lot of things ... where you dive, how often you dive, and why you got into diving in the first place. Age and gender don't really have that much to do with it ... I know some female divers with skills I can only ever hope to emulate. I'm pushing 60, and I know some folks older than me who dive at least as much ... and aggressively ... as I do.

And you can bet they didn't get to that point without deciding that practice is important.

Forget the agencies. Forget the demographics. And forget all the endless arguments about what gear is good and what gear will kill you. All that stuff is inconsequential. What matters is your goals, and your motivation. Everybody at a minimum gets shown some basic skills. How well you master those skills boils down to one thing, and one thing only ...

you

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hank49]

There you go again, making too much sense Bob.

 

[Selchie in LB]

OK ... so I'm wondering what any of this has to do with DIR ...

Anybody can practice their skills ... they should, in fact.

DIR came in because of all the divers I have met in my brief encounters to date (I only got certified in June 2010), it has only been the DIR divers that have ever expressed and done skills on a dive! Small survey sample you may say, but it's been about 50/50 for me. Quite honestly I was taken aback at first, now it is just standard and I am thinking along the same lines now.

Yes Grateful Diver anybody can practice their skills and we should. I guess now that I am certified I need to start making that part of my dives with buddies who are not of the DIR mindset.