Private diving in JP...
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I think it depends a bit where you are. As a foreigner I can get away with a lot more than the Japanese divers in my area. Basically I dive where I want, unless it's a popular site that many people go to and is organized. There's one place like that in Yamaguchi I used to go. It used to be free access, although it's actually a private camping/beach area. Now you need to go with a group/club with an instructor by all accounts. It's not too bad though as they have facilities like showers that you can use. For the rest - throw my tank in the car and drive somewhere....easy.... but generally not such good diving around here like that. If I go further out then I'm happy to hook up with someone with a boat or whatever and pay for it. I went to Amakusa (just south of Kumamoto, Kyushu) once. The guy dropped us on a really nice wreck that no one dives, because they don't know it's there. I had to bounce dive to 25m to find it to start with because the submerged 5m marker buoy had gone missing - but he was sure it was down there....and it was. The only way to that site was through this old guy who knew. For me it's "local taxes extra".
We go down to Sasebo quite a lot as well to a camping site. No one is allowed to dive from their beach because there's a lot of shellfish and stuff that they don't want divers taking (Japanese divers take everything not nailed down). My wife had a chat with them and voila....... I'm allowed to shore dive off their beach - or bring a kayak to get a bit further out.
It's often a question of attitude....oh...and of course having a diplomatic wife!
I've heard that foreigners get a hard time some places in Japan. In Kyushu I never experienced that. Even the Yakuza lads around here can be OK. One guy showed me a great bar the street folk used to relax in in Kurosaki. No hassle.....just drinking. The street girls used it for their "breaks", and some of the bosses used it as their "office". We got a few looks when he first brought us there....but after a while everyone was super friendly....when they realized we really weren't punters looking for sleaze and just wanted a drink and a laugh.
Japan is great!
We go down to Sasebo quite a lot as well to a camping site. No one is allowed to dive from their beach because there's a lot of shellfish and stuff that they don't want divers taking (Japanese divers take everything not nailed down). My wife had a chat with them and voila....... I'm allowed to shore dive off their beach - or bring a kayak to get a bit further out.
It's often a question of attitude....oh...and of course having a diplomatic wife!
I've heard that foreigners get a hard time some places in Japan. In Kyushu I never experienced that. Even the Yakuza lads around here can be OK. One guy showed me a great bar the street folk used to relax in in Kurosaki. No hassle.....just drinking. The street girls used it for their "breaks", and some of the bosses used it as their "office". We got a few looks when he first brought us there....but after a while everyone was super friendly....when they realized we really weren't punters looking for sleaze and just wanted a drink and a laugh.
Japan is great!
Good to know that you can still get away with, "Foreigners don't know any better". My fiancee and I are looking to move up to Shizuoka after we get married later this year. Good land prices and good scenery. Her salary is also double what is down here in Ehime.
Paying someone for showers and facilities is one thing. Paying to walk across the sand into the water is another....
Paying someone for showers and facilities is one thing. Paying to walk across the sand into the water is another....
yukilaw1012
Registered
If your taking shellfish or fish out of the water, make sure its under snorkel instead of scuba. UNLESS your are a member of the Japanese Fishing Association it is illegal to use scuba and all your gear WILL be confiscated.
CanadianSushi
Registered
Wow, looks like I jumped into this one a little late. I'm not an expert in this, but here's what I've learned for myself thus far:
- Yes, if you're going to INSIST on diving on your own, e.g. pulling over to the side of the road and jumping in, you may be right -- there may not be that much to be afraid of... However having said that, I've heard of divers going out and coming back to find their car windows smashed, tries slashed, and other acts of violence (or theft) done to their vehicle or gear. A good person to ask about this is Jim Goddard with Discovery Divers Tokyo -- he told me quite the tale once... I agree with the poster who mentioned that violence is probably not the best solution here... Ask yourself not whether or not you're intimidated by such bullsh't, but rather, IS IT WORTH IT? Is it really worth the hassle to save some yen? Is it worth your anger and frustration that you're going to have to put up with if someone decides to pull some stunt or other... Which leads me to the next point:
- Unless you're on Okinawa, you still need a place to rent tanks, or if you're one of the rare few who own their own here, fill them, you will still need to deal with the local fishing cooperatives to some degree. They run/operate the standard dive sites, at least in Izu. Can you rent your own tanks? Sure. Run through the hoops, fill out the appropriate forms, agree to their terms, rules and guidelines, and go diving. But of course they'll charge you the standard "ocean entry fee" whether you like it or not. If you take your rented gear "elsewhere" -- as in, not a designated diving spot, I can see how your ability to rent tanks and whatnot could be restricted or disallowed in the future. Another consideration is, this being Japan, we aren't exactly neck-deep in nice, convenient entries. Any sort of "stop-by-the-road" spot may not really be a good entry point, or if it is, you may not be able to park there.
- From what I've been able to figure out so far, through the help of the people on this forum and my own research, is that you can EITHER try to go through the co-op directly, which isn't always easy, the language barrier being the first of several hurdles... But ultimately possible. Otherwise, you can go through a dive shop. Most will insist on sending you with a guide, which will cost you the standard going rate for the area (Izu, specifically Futo is about 12,900 yen for 2 beach dives)... SOME shops allow you to "graduate" to only renting tanks, without a guide... But since there isn't much money to be made this way, they are not easy to find.
The "fishing yakuza" in that sense, fiercely protect their territory (or perceived territory) but at the same time, if you DO play within their rules and pay the money, you also get facilities that stop-by-the-road diving won't afford you -- change rooms, hot showers, rinse facilities and whatnot. Sometimes it makes things just that much more pleasant when you can return your rental tank as soon as you exit the water, rinse your gear, shower, and drink a coffee while you do your logbook at a picnic table provided for the purpose.
- Yes, if you're going to INSIST on diving on your own, e.g. pulling over to the side of the road and jumping in, you may be right -- there may not be that much to be afraid of... However having said that, I've heard of divers going out and coming back to find their car windows smashed, tries slashed, and other acts of violence (or theft) done to their vehicle or gear. A good person to ask about this is Jim Goddard with Discovery Divers Tokyo -- he told me quite the tale once... I agree with the poster who mentioned that violence is probably not the best solution here... Ask yourself not whether or not you're intimidated by such bullsh't, but rather, IS IT WORTH IT? Is it really worth the hassle to save some yen? Is it worth your anger and frustration that you're going to have to put up with if someone decides to pull some stunt or other... Which leads me to the next point:
- Unless you're on Okinawa, you still need a place to rent tanks, or if you're one of the rare few who own their own here, fill them, you will still need to deal with the local fishing cooperatives to some degree. They run/operate the standard dive sites, at least in Izu. Can you rent your own tanks? Sure. Run through the hoops, fill out the appropriate forms, agree to their terms, rules and guidelines, and go diving. But of course they'll charge you the standard "ocean entry fee" whether you like it or not. If you take your rented gear "elsewhere" -- as in, not a designated diving spot, I can see how your ability to rent tanks and whatnot could be restricted or disallowed in the future. Another consideration is, this being Japan, we aren't exactly neck-deep in nice, convenient entries. Any sort of "stop-by-the-road" spot may not really be a good entry point, or if it is, you may not be able to park there.
- From what I've been able to figure out so far, through the help of the people on this forum and my own research, is that you can EITHER try to go through the co-op directly, which isn't always easy, the language barrier being the first of several hurdles... But ultimately possible. Otherwise, you can go through a dive shop. Most will insist on sending you with a guide, which will cost you the standard going rate for the area (Izu, specifically Futo is about 12,900 yen for 2 beach dives)... SOME shops allow you to "graduate" to only renting tanks, without a guide... But since there isn't much money to be made this way, they are not easy to find.
The "fishing yakuza" in that sense, fiercely protect their territory (or perceived territory) but at the same time, if you DO play within their rules and pay the money, you also get facilities that stop-by-the-road diving won't afford you -- change rooms, hot showers, rinse facilities and whatnot. Sometimes it makes things just that much more pleasant when you can return your rental tank as soon as you exit the water, rinse your gear, shower, and drink a coffee while you do your logbook at a picnic table provided for the purpose.
CanadianSushi
Registered
P.S. After re-reading my original reply, I realized I wanted to add two more points that I forgot the first time around.
1. Normally speaking, (at least where I live) you won't save ANY money by having your own tank. Unless you also have your own compressor or have access to a U.S. Armed Forces base, you'll still be getting the local co-op to fill your tanks for you -- and it costs the SAME to rent a pre-filled tank or to have them fill yours.
2. Since you've lived here three years, it seems you have either been lucky to-date, or truly haven't gotten into a fight with someone where the police got involved. Maybe it's different where you live, but in my town the police really don't tolerate d!ck-swinging contests, whether it be foreigners or locals... The "rule of law" in my town is -- the most injured party is innocent and the least injured one is the perpetrator. My own physical stature alone and the fact that I've studied martial arts for 10 years or so would likely be enough to lay out someone foolish enough to try it, but HE gets knocked out, and I go to jail. And even if I get vindicated in the end, I can virtually guarantee that I won't have a job to go to the next day. Best to take the moral high ground, IMO and just steer clear of Japan's underbelly.
1. Normally speaking, (at least where I live) you won't save ANY money by having your own tank. Unless you also have your own compressor or have access to a U.S. Armed Forces base, you'll still be getting the local co-op to fill your tanks for you -- and it costs the SAME to rent a pre-filled tank or to have them fill yours.
2. Since you've lived here three years, it seems you have either been lucky to-date, or truly haven't gotten into a fight with someone where the police got involved. Maybe it's different where you live, but in my town the police really don't tolerate d!ck-swinging contests, whether it be foreigners or locals... The "rule of law" in my town is -- the most injured party is innocent and the least injured one is the perpetrator. My own physical stature alone and the fact that I've studied martial arts for 10 years or so would likely be enough to lay out someone foolish enough to try it, but HE gets knocked out, and I go to jail. And even if I get vindicated in the end, I can virtually guarantee that I won't have a job to go to the next day. Best to take the moral high ground, IMO and just steer clear of Japan's underbelly.
See a lot of what I've read is contrary to what I've experienced already.
I have 2 tanks, steel...thought about bringing my AL80 from the states but the dive shop said they need yearly tests...don't need that BS. I bought a used tank from them and picked up another used one on Yahoo. Fills, the shop has been filling a small C-fiber tank for 1.5 years for me to use in my work, airguns. He now refills my tank at his regular fee of 800yen.
That takes care of life support.
Beach entry.
Theres an island maybe 1/4 mile offshore with bihourly ferries to it. Its a shrine/deer park. They have camping spaces and hot showers...at no cost. You have to pay 350yen or something for the ferry ride, but thats it. I've also got an oceanographer friend who knows of quite a few good points of interest available only to these people and friends.
Good places. Don't you ever want to explore anything? Isn't that what diving is? Personally, I want to go places and see things others...including other divers...haven't.2 Sure theres a lot of crummy possible places....but who knows what you can find.
As to the language...my fiancee is Japanese...she can deal with whats necessary.
I come from a family that is of the attitude of if its not forbidden and not private...you have no right to charge for it. Its like charging to watch the sunset or play in the snow. For every skiiresort or hillside cafe...I know of 1-2 other places that are better and more special.
I have 2 tanks, steel...thought about bringing my AL80 from the states but the dive shop said they need yearly tests...don't need that BS. I bought a used tank from them and picked up another used one on Yahoo. Fills, the shop has been filling a small C-fiber tank for 1.5 years for me to use in my work, airguns. He now refills my tank at his regular fee of 800yen.
That takes care of life support.
Beach entry.
Theres an island maybe 1/4 mile offshore with bihourly ferries to it. Its a shrine/deer park. They have camping spaces and hot showers...at no cost. You have to pay 350yen or something for the ferry ride, but thats it. I've also got an oceanographer friend who knows of quite a few good points of interest available only to these people and friends.
Good places. Don't you ever want to explore anything? Isn't that what diving is? Personally, I want to go places and see things others...including other divers...haven't.2 Sure theres a lot of crummy possible places....but who knows what you can find.
As to the language...my fiancee is Japanese...she can deal with whats necessary.
I come from a family that is of the attitude of if its not forbidden and not private...you have no right to charge for it. Its like charging to watch the sunset or play in the snow. For every skiiresort or hillside cafe...I know of 1-2 other places that are better and more special.
CanadianSushi
Registered
Well, if you already got a shop that'll hook you up for 800 yen a tank, that's grand! You're doing better than those of us near Tokyo. That's like Okinawa -- where you can get 800 yen fills and miles of open beach.
Otherwise, as for be hassled or harassed.... Well, give it a try -- that's probably the only way you'll find out whether or not there's any "opposition" to your diving plans. Sounds like you may be more in a spot to do that than many of us. Let us know how you fare and what kind of success you had.
Good luck...
Otherwise, as for be hassled or harassed.... Well, give it a try -- that's probably the only way you'll find out whether or not there's any "opposition" to your diving plans. Sounds like you may be more in a spot to do that than many of us. Let us know how you fare and what kind of success you had.
Good luck...
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