Pro Ear Mask

[Thalassamania]

Sigh ... I was trying to be nice. The reality is that equalization involves the use of the Eustachian Tubes to equalize the pressure in the middle ear, it makes no difference if the pressure is transmitted to the ear drum by air or by water. The ear drum should be water tight, if it is not, then you have other problems that need to be looked into. If the problem is temperature related you'd be better served by using a warmer (or a dry) hood. As a diving instructor, an attitude of, "what works, works," without further inquiry, doesn't reflect very well on your professionalism.

 

[explorer08]

By now you didn't tell me anything I don't know myself. But it still leaves the question open, why the ProEar works with me and why I get equalization easier while using it. Your guess about the placebo effect is just what you call it - a guess, not more and not less. You don't know why it works as much as I don't know. So keep the ball flat.

By the way, I guess you don't dive with any dive computer and any dive table as well, because they all are based on assumptions, theories and models only. In that context the term "What works, works" is used for example by Dr. R.W. Bill Hamilton http://www.livingseas.com.sg/articles/article_landscape.htm
So far to professionalism.

As long as you don't come up with a real solution, we should stop that discussion here!

 

[Thalassamania]

It is interesting that you quote Bill Hamilton to me, since he has been know, on rare occasions, to quote me. What you are missing is that Billy-Bob (and I) have spent our careers looking for rational explanations to things that, "just seem to work." It's your cavalier dismissal of the need for such inquiry that is disturbing.

 

[nikos81]

Why do I have the feeling that this thread is going nowhere? Two people "fighting" about who has the most knowledge,but no-one answering the specific question...What bothers me most is that you are both experienced, so you should know that if it was to take it to a personal level, just exchange personal messages...Just answer the question of this thread properly and stop behaving like small children.

P.S. I mean no offense to anyone and I would be really glad to dive with both of you some day. It's just annoying having two guys posting this way...Sorry if I offend anyone...

 

[Thalassamania]

Would love feedback on the Pro-Ear Masks to help with equalizing while diving with a hood in MA.

I tried to answer the question, which raised more basic questions that Explorer08, for some strange and unknown reason, is opposed to having pursued. I applogize for any annoyance that you have suffered, sometimes it is, unfortunately, necessary.

 

[rab1412000]

The reality is that equalization involves the use of the Eustachian Tubes to equalize the pressure in the middle ear, it makes no difference if the pressure is transmitted to the ear drum by air or by water.

this is wrong. normally there is air pressure exerted on both sides of the eardrum. when a person dives the outer pressure caused by water is more than the pressure gradient in the middle. thus the eardrum is pushed in. when we equalize, we are letting in more pressure in the middle ear, thorugh the eustachian tube, to counter act the gradient coming from outside (water).
thus the medium impinging on the eardrum from the outside is a factor and its also the reason why while diving we feel this at 10 feet and while flying an airplane or climbong a mountain we feel it at a much mcuh greater altiitude, since water is a 'thicker' medium capable of exerting more pressure.
in barotrauma(diving or otherwise) it is always the eardrum that is affected and not the eustachian tube.
so pro ear and vented earplugs do work because, they limit the pressure of water on the ear while diving. the masks works by protecting the ear from the surrounding water pressure (you do have to equalize too however), and the earplugs aid by gradually allowing water in the ear compartment and thus allowing a more gradual pressure gradient increase. it is not a placebo effect.
i am a nonpracticing physician and have discussed this many times with my ent colleagues.

 

[rab1412000]

OP i have dove with the proear mask and it did help me equalize.
not however that strands of hair let water in and i did have to cut my hairline quite high which made me look like a dork!
i have since moved on to using docs pro earplugs.
i still have the mask however and i could probably sell it to you for cheap.
pm me if interested.

 

[Thalassamania]

this is wrong. normally there is air pressure exerted on both sides of the eardrum. when a person dives the outer pressure caused by water is more than the pressure gradient in the middle. thus the eardrum is pushed in. when we equalize, we are letting in more pressure in the middle ear, thorugh the eustachian tube, to counter act the gradient coming from outside (water).
thus the medium impinging on the eardrum from the outside is a factor and its also the reason why while diving we feel this at 10 feet and while flying an airplane or climbong a mountain we feel it at a much mcuh greater altiitude, since water is a 'thicker' medium capable of exerting more pressure.
in barotrauma(diving or otherwise) it is always the eardrum that is affected and not the eustachian tube.
so pro ear and vented earplugs do work because, they limit the pressure of water on the ear while diving. the masks works by protecting the ear from the surrounding water pressure (you do have to equalize too however), and the earplugs aid by gradually allowing water in the ear compartment and thus allowing a more gradual pressure gradient increase. it is not a placebo effect.
i am a nonpracticing physician and have discussed this many times with my ent colleagues.

Let's have a quick review of the basics:

1. Water and air are both fluids.
2. Water has a greater density than air.
3. Water is (approximately) the same density in the depth range of diving regardless of the depth.
4. Air density varies with altitude, it is densest at the the earth's surface and decreases as you ascend, with minor variation for different air masses.

OK so far?

Now some basic anatomy:

... normally there is air pressure exerted on both sides of the eardrum.

Correct.

when a person dives the outer pressure caused by water is more than the pressure gradient in the middle. thus the eardrum is pushed in.

Correct. Permit me to add that if you are in a equalized state at, say, 6,000 feet and descend to sea level, the exact same thing happens.

when we equalize, we are letting in more pressure in the middle ear, thorugh the eustachian tube, to counter act the gradient coming from outside (water).

Well ... as a first approximation your statement can stand, but it would give any competent physicist an upset stomach. You can not "let more pressure in." Pressure is a measurement, not a substance, you can however, permit air molecules to flow from a location of higher pressure (the Pharynx at the proximate end of the Eustachian Tube) to a location of lower pressure (the Tympanic Cavity at the distal end of the Eustachian Tube), thus returning the Tympanic Membrane to a neutral, non-distended state.

thus the medium impinging on the eardrum from the outside is a factor and its also the reason why while diving we feel this at 10 feet and while flying an airplane or climbong a mountain we feel it at a much mcuh greater altiitude, since water is a 'thicker' medium capable of exerting more pressure.

This is where you go start to go south. The difference in density means that an identical depth excursion in water rather than in air will result in a greater change in pressure on the tympanum and thus greater distension, however, air and water are both quite capable of exerting the same pressure. Just consider the situation in a compression chamber or an underwater habitat.

The pressure on the Tympanic Membrane is not produced by the fluid that is contact with the Tympanic Membrane, it is produced by the mass of the column of fluid(s) between the Tympanic Membrane and the top of the atmosphere. It is transmitted to the Tympanic Membrane by the fluid that is in contact with the Tympanic Membrane, and it really does not matter if that fluid is water, air, or even oil.

in barotrauma(diving or otherwise) it is always the eardrum that is affected and not the eustachian tube.

This is also incorrect. Long before the Tympanic Membrane bursts the mucosa lining the Eustachian Tube become engorged with blood in an attempt to equalize the pressure by reducing the volume. In this state, the mucosal edema will often block off the Eustachian Tube and preventing further equalization. This is what is commonly referred to as a %

 

[Thalassamania]

I just looked at the web site for the "ProEar" mask and I am prepared to describe it as a complete and utter fraud, snakeoil of the highest magnitude.

Here is their claim:

How the ProEar 2000 works

The ear cups cover the ears forming a watertight seal (once properly positioned and taking care to take out all excessive hair). Air is allowed into the ear cups when exhaling through the nose into the mask and then through the thin tubing which runs from the mask skirt into the ear cups passing through non return valves in the tube and into the ear cups. This allows the air space in the ear cups to equalize according to ambient pressure. The mask, ear cups and indeed the entire respiratory system become a closed circuit equalized air pressure system. The ear cups serve as a primary filter of ambient water pressure from the sea and the tubes mimic the Eustachian tubes allowing the diver to easily equalize the pressure in the ear cup before it ever reaches the ear drum.

​

Pray tell how do you "filter" ambient water pressure from the sea?"

How do you equalize the pressure in the ear cup before it ever reaches the ear drum? Pressure is constant for a given depth, there is no gradient, you can't intercept it on the way to its destination.

All the diver has to do is gently blow air through his nose to keep the ambient pressure (taken from the regulator) into the mask and ear cups. This creates a kind of 'buffering' effect that basically allows the ears to equalize in 2 stages. The first from the sea pressure into the ear cup and the second from the ear cup onto the eardrum.
​

This is some of the worst claptrap that I've ever read. That paragraph is semantically and scientifically empty.

The action of the silicone tube mimics the Eustachian tube but transports air in a much easier less obstructed fashion. The silicone membrane of the ear cup mimics the eardrum but is obviously more flexible and not effected by cold or pollutants.
​

I'll bet that it's "organic" too.

Some divers will still have to pinch their nose shut in order to equalize but the process should definitely be easier. The ear cups can be cleared of any water similar to clearing your mask.
​

There is no reason what-so-ever that the process "should be easier." While the "ear cups" can have any water in them pushed out, that's not at all the same thing as clearing out water that has seeped in under the silicone membrane into the ear canal. So you wind up with a dry cup over an that has been flooded with the cold, polluted, whatever, water that you were trying to keep out. If you need to keep your ears dry ... a helmet is the best way followed by a dry hood.

The ProEar 2000 mask also protects against ear infections, bony calcium deposits in the ear, and cold.
​

There is no clinical support for any of these claims.

The ProEar 2000 also allows for the directionality of sound, thereby allowing the diver (for the first time) to actually sense where sound direction is coming from!
​

This one I love. The direction of a sound is determined by the time lag at each ear that is created by the differential distance from the sound source to each ear. You can not locate sound underwater with any accuracy because sound travels much faster in water than in air and thus the time lag is much shorter. A small pocket of air over each ear will not change this.

My post here in no way reflects the opinion or stance of ScubaBoard or it's management. I relies solely on an understanding of the basic laws of physics, simple anatomical concepts and the January 2001 issue of DAN's Alert Diver.

 

[rab1412000]

@thalassamannia

thanks for your explanation on barotrauma physiology, but please allow me:

"Originally Posted by rab1412000
when we equalize, we are letting in more pressure in the middle ear, thorugh the eustachian tube, to counter act the gradient coming from outside (water).

Well ... as a first approximation your statement can stand, but it would give any competent physicist an upset stomach. You can not "let more pressure in." Pressure is a measurement, not a substance, you can however, permit air molecules to flow from a location of higher pressure (the Pharynx at the proximate end of the Eustachian Tube) to a location of lower pressure (the Tympanic Cavity at the distal end of the Eustachian Tube), thus returning the Tympanic Membrane to a neutral, non-distended state."

-pure semantics we are talking about the same thing.

The pressure on the Tympanic Membrane is not produced by the fluid that is contact with the Tympanic Membrane, it is produced by the mass of the column of fluid(s) between the Tympanic Membrane and the top of the atmosphere. It is transmitted to the Tympanic Membrane by the fluid that is in contact with the Tympanic Membrane, and it really does not matter if that fluid is water, air, or even oil.

-agree. but just like the above it is a more eloquent way of saying what i already stated.
it is true that any fluid can exert the same kind of pressure but at different volumes, due to their differing densities. and that is the reason why the pressure exerted by a cloumn of 10m of water is similar to that exerted by a column of 100m of air. thus a denser fluid such as water can exert more pressure (on the ear) at a given volume.
if you have an ENT borrow his otoscope and look into an ear while equalizing. you will clearly see the t.m. looking like a tight balloon, pushing out. thats same thing happens at depth in an attempt to equalize the pressure exerted by the column of water pushing it in.

Long before the Tympanic Membrane bursts the mucosa lining the Eustachian Tube become engorged with blood in an attempt to equalize the pressure by reducing the volume. In this state, the mucosal edema will often block off the Eustachian Tube and preventing further equalization. This is what is commonly referred to as a %

-you are mistaking the effect for the cause. what you describe is otitis media (it is not aerotitis) and is an effect of an inflamed t.m aka eardrum exposed to constant differences in pressure between the outer and middle ear, leading to inflammation and capillary damage (mucosal edema and blood engorgement) and could radiate to the eustachian tube and will be exacerbated by further attempts to equalize thru a non patent eustachian tube.