Problem with Stage Bottle Rigging

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks guys, I do appreciate the kind words and support.

Tobin

 

[divesergeant]

As with all 'techy' things, designs have to be made to try to accomodate the 'lowest common denominator' of intellect that will use it. Apparently, the denominator just got ratcheted a few notches lower...

I really do wonder what the motive is of this seabeast dude.

I'll continue to buy DSS and heed Tobin's advice. He knows his stuff... And for the record, I was ready to spend more $$ on some items of DSS rigging that I didn't need, but Tobin recommended the less expensive option when he could have taken my $$ and run.

DS

 

[irishsquid]

I am a DSS customer and like the others that have posted, have had nothing but positive, friendly, and helpful interaction with Tobin. Not trying to be argumentative. I understand taking care of customers and providing quality services, but; that dude just started off negative, rude, and in my opinion confrontational.

It's a lie..... p.s. By the way, the diameter of my al 80's is only 6.73 inches (171 mm). You tell me about 7.25"?! Maybe we use different rigging sets?

....you give the wrong information on your site. Nice job. I love your company. Hope the money made you more happy.
Regards

Tobin, don't tell nonsenses please. Only difference is that your soft band wears out in time....
I don't want to make some stupid works before installing the rigging. I don't need trash for high price. Do you find this fairly?

I read them.

Fine. Clearly, it's either not working for the guy or he's unwilling to do what it takes to make it work. He wants to blame a shoddy product, and you want to blame him. What difference does it make who or what is to blame?

One of your customers is having a problem, and not only has it not been fixed, but you've told him directly that "there's nothing you can do." Your other customers have insulted him and his intelligence to boot.

Makes me want to go into the camband-making business. You'd be an easy target if you were my competition, Tobin.

If the tides were turned and it was me, I'd give the guy his money back and tell him that I was sorry it didn't work out. What's it cost you - the manufactured price of a cam band? What's that... Pennies? A dollar or two? Why would he have to ship it back to you?

I understand what you're saying about eating the cost of the bands. I would probably send him a refund and then let him know I'd just as soon not sell him
my "Trash" and have a nice life. Good riddance!, but that's me. YMMV

 

[Rainer]

Tobin already offered the guy a refund. The guy didn't want it.

Tobin already told the guy exactly what he needed to do to "fix" his bands. The guy didn't want to try.

In fact, the guy called Tobin a liar (multiple times). I've seen these bands. They work fine. Assuming you aren't so incompetent to prevent their correct operation.

 

[*dave*]

I had one of Tobin's kits waiting for a stage to be hydro'd, so I tossed it onto an AL80 that was already rigged, just to check fit.

In this shot, you can see there's plenty of webbing to grab hold of when ratcheting it tight. I could skip threading the last slot at this point, but there's plenty left to thread, so I do.

There aren't many variables here. The strap should be about 31", what does yours measure?

Hi Tobin. Some months ago I have bought few Stage Straps from your store. I see on your site that I can use it with Al80 tanks. Yesterday I have tried to use them, but the cam band was too short. You can see the picture:




Explain it please. Below on the photo is the OMS Cam Band for comparison.

p.s. Sorry for my bad english.

 

[SEABEAST]

Thanks Deep South Divers, you really understand situation.
And 5000 logged dives is just fantastic! I dream about the same

There aren't many variables here. The strap should be about 31", what does yours measure?

Hi *dave*. How you have made the strap such 31"? My strap is only 28" (72cm).

p.s. I didn't try to offend anybody. My english is very bad, I have never learnt this language and sometime I use wrong words. I see you much angry with a word "lie", but I only wished to tell that the information on a site is incorrect.

I have spent few thousand dollars in the USA stores, but that was my first problem. Hm, sorry not first. I have bought the two expensive MB-SUB X1-VB lights also and one of them had problem with light beam. Problem was solved in few minutes, but Michael just sent me another light head without any returning and payments. I think that's called as good service. But be assured, I never die of $160.

 

[*dave*]

Hi *dave*. How you have made the strap such 31"? My strap is only 28" (72cm).

As I recall, I used the ratchet action of the buckle to stretch it. I don't know what the original length was, but it did stretch. These buckles operate nothing like the cam buckles.

 

[Cave Diver]

p.s. I didn't try to offend anybody. My english is very bad, I have never learnt this language and sometime I use wrong words. I see you much angry with a word "lie", but I only wished to tell that the information on a site is incorrect.

I have spent few thousand dollars in the USA stores, but that was my first problem. Hm, sorry not first. I have bought the two expensive MB-SUB X1-VB lights also and one of them had problem with light beam. Problem was solved in few minutes, but Michael just sent me another light head without any returning and payments. I think that's called as good service. But be assured, I never die of $160.

SeaBeast,

Tobin makes some pretty good quality stuff and in every instance I've seen, he goes out of his way to make sure his customers are taken care of. He's a pretty straight up guy and perhaps his being direct in addressing the problem comes across to some as being too brusque.

But then again, you pretty much came into an open forum and said he was falsely advertising products, and costing you lots of money without offering you help. It's not surprising if you get a response that's not all sunshine and puppies after that.

Several people have chimed in that they had similar products that work just fine. May I suggest that you start off by measuring the total length of the band to make sure it falls within specs. If so, then try following the advice posted already by him and other users. You might also check to make sure the buckle is being threaded in the manner recommended and not eating up extra length. Finally, if worse comes to worse, you could add a bit of innertube to the strap to secure the tail from sticking up.

Like several have already mentioned, the velcro does not keep the strap snug, the buckle does. If the tank is slipping, then either the buckle is threaded wrong or the strap is not tight enough. Try the suggestions given and if that doesnt resolve it, then solicit more opinions.

Good luck!

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hi *dave*. How you have made the strap such 31"? My strap is only 28" (72cm).

All nylon webbing changes length when it's been wet and dryed.

There are many stories of the webbing found in the center of many wings shrinking so much that the grommets can no longer be fit over the bolts on doubles. And that's a 11" of resin reinforced webbing.

If you have enough webbing length to weave the buckle you have enough to stretch it back out. It's not uncommon for this webbing to change length by a couple inches.

Thursday I took a brand new stage kit out of stock to try and reproduce your problem. When I first installed the kit the tail of the webbing looked like your picture. The band was not snug, and the tail did not reach the velcro.

With couple minutes of working the buckle the strap stretched by ~1.5 inches and after wetting it and working the buckle it was ~2.5 inches longer.


Fit the rigging to the bottle lace the buckle through slots 1, 2, & 3 but not #4. Open the buckle fully, bend it back all the way. Now pull hard one the tail as you close the buckle. Do it a couple times. You will gain length and the cam strap tension pad will compress. Get it wet and do it again, then let it dry on the bottle.

Why don't we make the strap 2-3 inches longer to start with?

Pretty simple. This kit is designed to allow the traveling diver to quickly make either an al 40 or al 80 into a stage without tools or loose parts.

If the band was any longer it would be too long when used on a 40, and there would be a loose tail section left flopping. When used on an 80 the strap is just long enough, when used on a 40 it's almost too long.

We could sell a kit JUST for 80's and another JUST for 40's but than means most divers would have to spend 2x the money, and they might not have what they need when the arrive at their destination.

The fact that you claim the rigging slips on the bottle tells me you don't have the band tight enough. They need to be tight. The softer webbing is used precisely to allow pulling the webbing through the buckle. Resin reinforced webbing is much more difficult to slide through the buckle and it tends to take a "set" making future adjustments difficult.

Tobin

 

[SEABEAST]

Fit the rigging to the bottle lace the buckle through slots 1, 2, & 3 but not #4. Open the buckle fully, bend it back all the way. Now pull hard one the tail as you close the buckle. Do it a couple times. You will gain length and the cam strap tension pad will compress. Get it wet and do it again, then let it dry on the bottle.

I did it. Only difference is that my strap was dry. I will try to repeat this with the wet strap on the next week. There is also a chance to break a buckle because it's plastic. I saw this few times.

We could sell a kit JUST for 80's and another JUST for 40's but than means most divers would have to spend 2x the money, and they might not have what they need when the arrive at their destination.

How about S/S 80's tank with 8" diameter ("piggy")? You can receive such stage on Maldives, for example.
If you want universality, the best idea is to make a loop on the strap and the separately cam band. With this rigging you can change the band if it's necessary. When I did purchase, I thought that your rigging have the this design.