Progression of Certifications

[boulderjohn]

Hopefully not to sidetrack this thread too much :

Are wreck certifications "required" in the same way that cave certifications are? Do boat captains ask to see a card before going to a specific wreck?

There's wreck diving, and then there's wreck diving.

At one extreme, wrecks like the Copenhagen in Florida should be called "wreckage diving." It takes nothing more than the most basic OW skills. At the other extreme are deep, dark wrecks with labyrinthine passageways that require special equipment, decompression skills, and advanced wreck navigation skills.

Most wrecks are well in between those extremes.

By far the wrecks most people dive are on the recreation side of the spectrum. They are not all that deep, and most penetrations have an easily seen and easily reached exit to open water nearby at all times. No special certifications are needed.

If you casually go to a recreational diving web site and they offer trips to local wrecks, they will almost always be accessible to an open water diver with no special certification needed. If the wreck does require some technical skill, you will usually be warned in advance.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hopefully not to sidetrack this thread too much :

Are wreck certifications "required" in the same way that cave certifications are? Do boat captains ask to see a card before going to a specific wreck?

No ... you don't need any special certification to swim along the outside of a wreck. There are plenty of wrecks ... particularly of the artificial reef variant ... that are primarily frequented by recreational divers.

For that matter, you don't NEED any special certification to swim inside the wreck once you're down there ... who's gonna know, after all?

Of course, it's a pretty stupid thing to do ... but we all have the right to call Darwin if that's what we're into.

Going inside a wreck ... even a "prepared" wreck ... can get hairy in a hurry for the unprepared. Getting lost isn't the only danger, but it's the biggest danger ... because you can easily run out of air before you find your way out. People do it every year ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ianr33]

For that matter, you don't NEED any special certification to swim inside the wreck once you're down there ... who's gonna know, after all?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thats pretty much what I was getting at. Caves obviously have a long list of limits: Cavern has to have ambient light,intro cave only uses 1/6 of doubles and so on whereas wreck diving seems to be less defined/regimented.

I'm sure lots of cave divers dive wrecks without specific wreck training,but the reverse is not true.

I'm guessing the difference in part is due to many caves being on private land whereas wrecks are not ?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thats pretty much what I was getting at. Caves obviously have a long list of limits: Cavern has to have ambient light,intro cave only uses 1/6 of doubles and so on whereas wreck diving seems to be less defined/regimented.

I'm sure lots of cave divers dive wrecks without specific wreck training,but the reverse is not true.

I'm guessing the difference in part is due to many caves being on private land whereas wrecks are not ?

Quite so. On the other hand, caves and wrecks are not as similar as a lot of divers would think ... although many of the skills are transferrable, the mental approach needed to dive them safely is not ... each has its own unique ways of getting you in trouble.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm sure lots of cave divers dive wrecks without specific wreck training,but the reverse is not true.

If I recall the statistics correctly, the largest category of cave fatalities is people without cave training credentials.

IMO, a psychological difference is that people have heard frequently that a cave, any cave, get's hairy as soon as you are really into it. (You almost always have only one very dark exit point.) That gives them respect. In contrast, so many wrecks are pretty accessible to even recreational divers, so many are not really very big with multiple exit points and light coming in from everywhere, that people underestimate the ability to get lost in their passageways.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If I recall the statistics correctly, the largest category of cave fatalities is people without cave training credentials.

IMO, a psychological difference is that people have heard frequently that a cave, any cave, get's hairy as soon as you are really into it. (You almost always have only one very dark exit point.) That gives them respect. In contrast, so many wrecks are pretty accessible to even recreational divers, so many are not really very big with multiple exit points and light coming in from everywhere, that people underestimate the ability to get lost in their passageways.

I've now spent several days helping prepare a ship for sinking as an artificial reef ... and I still get lost in the passageways.

Even with extensive familiarity, it's possible to find yourself on a deck which is not the one you think you're on. Underwater that can have interesting consequences.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

Even with extensive familiarity, it's possible to find yourself on a deck which is not the one you think you're on. Underwater that can have interesting consequences.

I think we are saying the same thing.

I know those wrecks exist, and I know they are dangerous for that reason.

On the other hand, go to an operator in the Pompano/Fort Lauderdale area in Florida and sign up for dives the many wrecks they frequent and see how many present that problem. A steady diet of those wrecks can lead to overconfidence.

 

[Austin]

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I know wreck diving is hazardous and those were excellent points about building up one's abilities and familiarity before attempting technical wreck diving. Also an excellent point that I should think about how far I actually want to go and lay out goals before starting on this path. Thinking about what everyone's said, I'm going to get a basic recreational wreck course this summer in Bermuda and enjoy the easy wreck dives there, getting more comfortable with very basic wreck diving. Then when I come back to VA in the fall, I'll do a Intro to Tech course and get introduced to doubles and redundant systems, and depending on how I like it, take it from there.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think we are saying the same thing.

I know those wrecks exist, and I know they are dangerous for that reason.

On the other hand, go to an operator in the Pompano/Fort Lauderdale area in Florida and sign up for dives the many wrecks they frequent and see how many present that problem. A steady diet of those wrecks can lead to overconfidence.

Yes, I was giving a "case in point" to your comment, not disagreeing with it.

But up here, even the prepared wrecks can be problematic because it's often so dark down there you won't even see an opening unless you're right next to it ... ambient light's only good to about 70 feet here, except on a few rare days a year. And during the summer, when plankton blooms get thick on the upper layers, it could be much shallower than that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

Austin, that sounds like a great plan!