Qualifications of a DM

[NothingClever]

This subject hits one of my buttons.

1. DM needs rebranding. Passing a DM course mean you've reached the entry level of dive pro. It doesn't mean you're suddenly a super hero
2. DM course are highly profitable for dive centres, especially when they laughingly turn over a course in 10 days. I personally believe it takes 3 months of mentoring, to expose a candidate to most of the situations they will face in the real world.
Maybe the course is 2 part. Initial cert where you're able to be a certified assistant and then Pt 2 where they're mentored and assessed with real customers and real dives

3. It should be an entry requirement for DM's that Tec 40 has been complete (insert your agency's Intro to tech course) far too many dive pro's struggle with the rudimentaries of dive theory

4. Make it easier to fail a student. Too many candidates expect the cert to be awarded just from attendance (the bare minimum at that) They want the bragging rights without putting in the work and gaining knowledge.

5. Require that Instructors take a further qualification before being allowed to teach DM. Too many Instructors take combined DM/OWI course and have zero experience guiding dives with real customers. How can they pass on experience to the students if they have non themselves

I think the above appraisal is pretty accurate and that the recommended adjustments would improve diving the world over.

 

[Scraps]

Totally concur. I expect a quality dive brief from the DM and then be allowed to get on with my dive.

And that is a realistic expectation based on the training DM's receive.

 

[Blackcrusader]

And that is a realistic expectation based on the training DM's receive.

I've found in Asia there are some really fantastic local DM's. Many of them have been diving 10 - 15 years and are really excellent guides. I tend to only dive with a few dive centers so I have over the last ten years got to known some of them quite well. As a regular customer with my dive partners we are often assigned one DM for us and another diver so a DM with 3 experienced divers. In Bali you can rent tanks and go diving on a wreck without a guide as the wreck starts at 5m depth close to shore and goes down to around 35m. Can't get lost on that site lol.

Good dive centers lets the experienced divers off the boat first followed by lesser experienced vacation divers then students. So the students get their 50 - 60 minute dives but we can get 70 - 75 minute dives in. It's the years of experience the DM's have with dealing with customers. et recently on one FB forum a person who has no diving wanted to know how quickly he could go from OW to DM. Other people advised that you can do that but you have no value as you have not built up any experience. I think some agencies ought to re-evaluate the number of dives and the divers experience level before letting them do the DM course. It is too easy for people with no experience to become DM Certified. Some have done that yet have no night diving experience.

 

[Wibble]

I am a certified PADI trimix instructor, and my stack of certification cards is approximately 2 inches high.

I do not qualify as a PADI Master Diver.

Isn't the PADI "master" diver simply a paid(!) marketing "certification" that you've done 5 "specialities"? Good to see that you didn't fall for it

 

[ginti]

3. It should be an entry requirement for DM's that Tec 40 has been complete (insert your agency's Intro to tech course) far too many dive pro's struggle with the rudimentaries of dive theory

Do you believe that the skills' level of DMs should be up to the level of tec divers? Especially in terms of buoyancy, trim, propulsion, air share, SMB deployment and valves manipulation (e.g. v-drill)

Why?

 

[SlugLife]

Isn't the PADI "master" diver simply a paid(!) marketing "certification" that you've done 5 "specialities"? Good to see that you didn't fall for it

I've seen a couple posts in this thread which assert "Dive Master means you are trained to do X, Y, and Z." However, if what you say is true, and it's any 5 specialties, then a DM could be anyone who has taken 5 non dive-skill related courses like Coral Reef Conservation, Photographer, Boat Diver, Underwater Naturalists, Fish Identification, and Shark Conservation. That again supports what I said earlier about DM being a relatively meaningless term.

Also, people call any dive-guide, or dive-instructor-assistant "DM." When people talk about what kind of training a DM should have, I get confused because I'm pretty sure DM has no fixed meaning, and means many different things to different people. Preferably anyone who acts as a dive-guide, has dive-guide-training & anyone who acts as an instructor-assistant, has instructor-assistant training.

In other words, anyone acting in a commercial capacity should be trained & competent for that role.

 

[Diving Dubai]

And that is a realistic expectation based on the training DM's receive

Our DM Trainees carry out multiple briefings until they're at ease and confident in doing so. It's a skill they need to master

I have no time for people who believe that a 10 day course qualifies them as a DM, nor the Dive centres that offer these courses

Do you believe that the skills' level of DMs should be up to the level of tec divers? Especially in terms of buoyancy, trim, propulsion, air share, SMB deployment and valves manipulation (e.g. v-drill)

Why?

Well firstly I've seen many poor skills on so called Tech qualified divers

But the skills you highlight are standard fare for DM and need to be at a level so that its automatic, because your bandwidth is probably being occupied in managing other divers in the group.

Take dsmb deployment, I'd be doing that on the fly, and quickly because it's likely that I'll have to intervene to manage another diver's buoyancy at the stop, while keeping tabs on the other 5 divers.

In the pool during CW classes, DM's need to be able to position themselves near students without sculling. We teach all skills NB, our DM Trainees need to demonstrate the skills while being NB or at most just fin tips - where the max depth is 2.4m / 8ft without hitting the bottom nor the surface, because that's how they'll be demonstrating skills to students. Buoyancy should be automatic and without conscious thought. A bit like driving a car from A - B on a regular route

I've seen a couple posts in this thread which assert "Dive Master means you are trained to do X, Y, and Z." However, if what you say is true, and it's any 5 specialties, then a DM could be anyone who has taken 5 non dive-skill related courses like Coral Reef Conservation, Photographer, Boat Diver, Underwater Naturalists, Fish Identification, and Shark Conservation. That again supports what I said earlier about DM being a relatively meaningless term.

Master Diver & Dive Master are two completely different certifications

 

[Wibble]

Master Diver & Dive Master are two completely different certifications

Master Diver is not a certification. It's simply like McDonalds badges: I've collected 5 'stars'/specialities. "master diver" is purely a marketing ploy.

DiveMaster is supposed to be a dive leader course (which is a much better description in any case). They've learned new leading skills and practised them during a course of instruction. Thus DiveMaster DiveLeader is a qualification.


The term DiveMaster is a complete misnomer. They are not masters of diving. Although some DiveMasters may have wide experience and skills, the DM course doesn't teach nor require exceptional knowledge of diving outside of the limited definition of recreational diving: exemplary skills, depth of theory, etc. Thus the majority of 'DMs' are purely dive leaders.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Thus the majority of 'DMs' are purely dive leaders.

That's just not true. Remember I was a BSAC Dive Leader before I went back to PADI and became a DM then Instructor

DL & DM are very complimentary courses and they both teach things which are specific to their needs. DL Running a club boat, making sure you have someone to tow, boat handle getting petrol money out of the deep pockets or some of the members and cajoling them to help wash the boat etc post dive

DM obv doesn't have that, but it does have the teaching element, which before I took the course I was scathing about but realised how much it improved my interaction skills with other divers and ability to mentor more effectively

There's also a massive difference between leading club divers, whose skills and foibles you know very well, and leading complete strangers who are complete unknowns

DM's have a similar requirement for theoretical knowledge which is examined - and is more in depth from what they've learnt (or forgotten as a rec diver) Thankfully though they don't need to learn BSAC 88 tables

Club diving for all its strengths also breeds a lot of poor diving and training just because its a closed group practicing self affirmation.

As always the skills of the student at the end of the course is highly dependant upon the quality of instruction , and unfortunately too many people want to hold a DM cert without putting in the effort. Something that a grumpy club DO would never allow

 

[ginti]

Well firstly I've seen many poor skills on so called Tech qualified divers

But the skills you highlight are standard fare for DM and need to be at a level so that its automatic, because your bandwidth is probably being occupied in managing other divers in the group.

Take dsmb deployment, I'd be doing that on the fly, and quickly because it's likely that I'll have to intervene to manage another diver's buoyancy at the stop, while keeping tabs on the other 5 divers.

In the pool during CW classes, DM's need to be able to position themselves near students without sculling. We teach all skills NB, our DM Trainees need to demonstrate the skills while being NB or at most just fin tips - where the max depth is 2.4m / 8ft without hitting the bottom nor the surface, because that's how they'll be demonstrating skills to students. Buoyancy should be automatic and without conscious thought. A bit like driving a car from A - B on a regular route

Agree; in a previous post in this thread, I mentioned the GUE standards for a rec pass as a minimum I would expect from a DM. I wonder:
- is the rec-pass level sufficient, or a tec-pass level should be expected?
- the GUE standards are the only ones I am familiar with: maybe there is a better way to evaluate the skills of a DM? Which criteria do you use? (in your example you just mention buoyancy and being able to do skills on the fly, but what about trim? propulsion?)

Thanks a lot