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Question for cave certfied DMs

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by windapp, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Captain Bil

    Captain Bil Captain

    # of Dives:
    Location: Dothan, AL

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
  2. jmneill

    jmneill Barracuda

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: North Florida
    You know it's never to soon to pull your russian roulette analogy out of the bag again. After all, the average open water diver that enters the Ginnie ballroom is just one spin away from certain death. (Please ignore their safety record, as that would make the previous sentence sound silly)
  3. flots am

    flots am Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Wherever you go in life, that's where you are.
    . . . .
  4. windapp

    windapp Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Windsor Ontario
    So, there is no such thing as a sort of "Discover Cavern" dive, where, with minimal instruction, someone can safely lead you in and out of a cavern?
    Please, if you are not cave certified, and you are leaving your opnion, state that fact.
  5. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace ScubaBoard Supporter

    windapp, what you are describing is pretty much what the cenote tours in Mexico are, although the voluntary rules down there require that the leader of the dives be at least an OW instructor, and not just a DM. But they don't have to be a cave instructor to lead the tours, just cave trained.

    To be completely honest, would I lead a friend who had a Fundies rec or tech pass on a dive through one of the "tourist" cenote caverns in MX? I don't know -- I'd probably get my husband, who has a PADI cavern instructor cert (by virtue of being cave trained -- he didn't have to do any additional training or evaluation to get it :eek:) to do it. But I don't think it is out of the question that I might. Lead an unknown or novice diver on the same thing? No way.
  6. Cave Diver

    Cave Diver Divemaster

    Agreed. Under very tightly controlled circumstances, with a known, competent buddy.
  7. tstormdiver

    tstormdiver Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Kentucky
    I would, but then the resulting answers about fire arms terminology, would derail the thread, like you & others did. It is just as true & correct as it was when I said it before, whether you choose to believe it or not. This is coming from someone (myself) who, very foolishly, entered a cave untrained & was extremely lucky to have survived. I landed on the chamber next to the loaded one,... so yes, the analogy is very correct & obliviously does happen (if you've kept up with all the cave fatalities that have happened this year & years past. There are absolutely no safe cave(rn)s for the untrained diver, without a qualified cave(rn) instructor.
  8. nimoh

    nimoh Public Safety Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Rochester, MN
    I am a DM, but not cave certified. I have done one cenote tour (as a follower, not a leader) and had no problems, so given my experience, I obviously wouldn't lead any OW divers into a cave.

    I may lead them into a cavern. Non-overhead environment with natural light? Seems fine to me. I would basically draw the line at any cavern dive that has a chance of becoming a cave dive. That would be out of the question.

    For example, if the cavern dive is an overhead environment:
    1. it would have to have a rock bottom with 0% chance of silting out
    2. there would have to be plenty of daylight
    3. there would have to be an exit at both ends (i.e. a swim through)
    4. there could be no alternate routes
    5. probably 20'-30' long at most (i.e. a short swim through)

    So basically, I would be comfortable leading OW divers through an artificial tunnel in a swimming pool :)
  9. MADiveGirl

    MADiveGirl Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Boston, Massachusetts, United States
    So how do you all feel about the line to do the 90' loop through the Blue Grotto in FL? I've been to the Grotto 2x now (once as part of my OW cert dives, and once on my own as a certified diver with other more experienced divers) and have chosen NOT to go down the line. No thanks, no desire right now. But it seems like people do that all the time. Stupid? Or am I being overly cautious (I don't care how you answer here - I'm still not doing it any time soon!)?

    What about Devil's Den (also in FL)? That we also did as part of our cert trip. By then I was "officially" certified, but kept right on the DM's fins with my buddy right beside me. I felt totally comfortable there, as I could always see sky and the bottom is all rock - no silt. Is that considered a cavern? It's definitely got areas that are an overhead environment, without a doubt.

    Just wondering what you all would think of these two locations for OW peeps.

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