Question on SD vs HD for amateur videographer

[limeyx]

From my limited u/w video experience I've observed that when it comes to stability underwater bigger is better, I'm stoked that my first and present rig is as massive as it is. The only problem is travel but it's worth it.

Billy

For me, getting the thing neutral is the critical thing. I noticed a huge improvement in the cave footage I got in Feb when I balanced the housing much more, which with the size of the L&M bluefin is actually quite easy as it takes a lot of lead to sink it, so I can just remove some to balance it.

 

[PerroneFord]

My results have been that my HDV footage has far far outperformed anything I got with DV. Even the crappiest HDV footage in my experience can be pushed around in the NLE way way more than DV -- DV just starts to fall apart way quicker, at least on my older cam (sony PC350)

Yes, but look at what you were shooting with, and what you have now. Even throwing out the change in format, you have moved up several notches in the level of camera you are shooting. Compare a $600 DV camera from 5 years ago, with a $600 HDV camera of today in an underwater housing and I think you'll see FAR less of a difference.

However, admittely I did spend 3K on the HDV camera and $2K on lights, but even w/out the lights, my results are significantly better than my DV

Exactly. You bought one of the best HDV cameras on the market, and you have some of the best lights an amateur videomaker can buy for underwater use. As I mentioned, I am not speaking about shooters willing to spend the $5-6k necessary to come back with the images you're getting. Frankly, your last videos are now bordering on the professional. With some light shaping and diffusion, you could be selling your videos for profit. This is not the same league as a person trying to get a camera, housing and lights, for what you spent on lights alone. Apples and oranges.

and while HDV is compressed to a higher ratio than DV, that alone does not mean it is inherently "worse," just different. Of course, MPEG2 (HDV) is really more of a delivery codec than an editing one, but I find it does hold up pretty well honestly.

I feel that HDV IS worse in Chroma, but not in luma. The 4:2:0 sampling really shows up when you shoot in low light. On a common computer monitor, it might not really show, but on a large flat-screen, it's pretty noticeable, at least to me. HDV can hold up through a generation of editing pretty well. But I think the very best way to deal with it, it to get it something lossless at the inital step, and work with that.

I would not take any of the consumer HDV cams out in the green murky water we have out here though honestly.

And that, is the crux of the matter.

 

[limeyx]

And that, is the crux of the matter.

Here we agree, and of course it's not "fair" to compare a cheap DV cam to my FX1, but it's the only data point I have for U/W stuff. Even with no lights, on a reef, the HDV blows away what I could get with DV.

The TRV900/VX cannot be beat in lowlight from what I can see, but I still dont know how much you can push the footage around and not have it go to crap.

 

[Empty V]

Even with no lights, on a reef, the HDV blows away what I could get with DV.

Not if you put it up against the DVX100.

Billy

 

[limeyx]

Not if you put it up against the DVX100.

Billy

Possibly, although I've never edited anything from that cam. If it's recording the full signal to the P2 cards, then yes, it will surely look way better than my PC350 did

 

[kroorda]

WCJ, I made the switch from SD to HDV and can assure you that buying the camera is just the tip of the iceberg. When to go 'HD', everything involved must be HD.. (If you want a true 1080, HD picture to view and share). You must have an HD camera, a housing, computer software that can handle HD [such as Adobe Premier Elements], a computer that can handle the software [at least a dual-core processor], a Blu-ray HD burner, Blu-ray disks, a Blu-ray player, and an HDTV. The biggest mistake people make is that they get an HD camera, but then they burn the video to a standard DVD. It'll work, but your resulting pictures will be worse than SD video. (Believe me, I speak from experience!) As I see replies from people in this forum, who aren't that pleased with their HD cameras, I strongly suspect that not ALL of their equipment is HD. Thus, their resulting video is garbage. For some people, editing video and burning it to disk isn't important. But, for us divers, editing and burning to disk is nearly a requirement. Unfortunately, the sellers of HD camera housings aren't telling purchasers all they need to know... so that they can get really good video from their setup. If you can't make the investment in ALL that it takes to take, edit, and burn true HD, then you should stay with SD. Pictures from SD cameras are phenomenal, and editing and burning to disk are straightforward. And, you probably won't need a new computer for the editing software. (By the way, I recommend Adobe Premier Elements for editing either SD or HD).
Good Luck, Kent

 

[PerroneFord]

Interesting observation. The real HD stuff that I've worked with and cut for SD has been gorgeous. Even the well shot HDV stuff that I've converted to SD has been very nice. Poorly shot HD/HDV is going to look bad no matter what you convert it to.

-P

The biggest mistake people make is that they get an HD camera, but then they burn the video to a standard DVD. It'll work, but your resulting pictures will be worse than SD video. (Believe me, I speak from experience!)

 

[limeyx]

Interesting observation. The real HD stuff that I've worked with and cut for SD has been gorgeous. Even the well shot HDV stuff that I've converted to SD has been very nice. Poorly shot HD/HDV is going to look bad no matter what you convert it to.

-P

Agreed. IMO HDV cut down to DVD resolutions looks really really good.

 

[CompuDude]

I third that notion, not that it changes my initial recommendation. HD footage down-res'd to SD looks really good.

The issue is more the low end HD vs. high end SD one, for me.

 

[ronscuba]

.. a Blu-ray HD burner, Blu-ray disks, a Blu-ray player,..

Don't have to have Blu-ray. I record back to my HDV camcorder tape for HDTV viewing. Plus, with broadband internet, you can share your HD video at almost full resolution.