Razor 2 Setup Questions

[CGE925]

Soon to be newby Sidemounter here. I just picked up a ridiculous deal on a lightly used Razor 2 (plus 2 tanks and an Apeks sidemount reg set) and I have a few initial questions for those with experience using the Razor. FYI, I'll be transitioning from a Halcyon Infinity BP/W and plan to sidemount almost exclusively in warmish open water up here in Canada, as well as on vacation down south. Mostly thin wetsuit, very occasionally in a Drysuit, so yes, I will also have to worry about changing weighting. Zero chance of any major overheads, caves, etc, at most penetrating a VERY open shipwreck, so some of the Razor's more tech-oriented features and benefits are not important to me.

Your thoughts and comments on these question would be appreciated.

1) My Halcyon backplate has very good shoulder harness adjustability. I ditched the Cinch system which I didn't really like and installed the excellent Agir Harpa system, which allows very fast and easy loosening and tightening of the shoulder straps by pulling the two sides of the waist strap near the base of the baseplate. Works much better than the Cinch system ever did. On my new Razor, however, the shoulder straps seem to be non-adjustable. If I loosen the shoulder straps a bit to don the thing, there does not seem to be an easy way to tighten them up. If I have it on and the shoulder straps properly tight, it is not easy to loosen them, not to mention being very difficult to even don. I'm obviously missing something, but the otherwise excellent manual is silent on this.

2) Is there anything specific to Sidemounting that would preclude using a narrower crotch strap on the Razor? I will absolutely never be using a DPV, so that solid D ring connection down there would not be required, and a narrower (1.5" or even 1") crotch strap would seem to be more comfortable.

3) The Razor has a dual bladder system for redundancy. The main bladder is controlled by the main inflator, but the secondary/backup bladder is controlled by a cheap little clear plastic hose and bite valve/oral only inflator. I find this plastic hose very annoying and interfering at it's delivered length. What have people done to mount this rarely used item? BTW, I LOVE the way the main inflator runs on the Razor, running up from the lower right hip across the chest to bungee to a LH shoulder D Ring. I'm right handed and it feels light years ahead of the over the shoulder inflator on my Infinity wing

4) The Razor's waist strap is held fastened using a somewhat unusual system involving two square rings through which the waist is threaded, as opposed to the more common lever type quick release buckle as found on my Halcyon. Is there any benefit to this new type of waist buckle or could I go back to a "standard" type of lever-actuated waist buckle given my lack of any interest in technical/cave diving where entanglements are a constant threat

5) One final, non-Razor question re lower tank attachments. I received two AL80s with this package, to go along the other two I already have, and will almost certainly stick to AL80s when sidemounting. Down south, I'd have little choise. The two new tanks both had SS band clamps over rubber straps holding the lower tank attach bolt snaps, but I would prefer the easier adjustability of moveable/removeable Cam Bands, both at home and when I travel down south. Are cam-bands frowned upon in this case, I'd prefer not to carry a screwdriver if I ever need to re-position or remove the straps.

Thanks in advance for your comments, and please don't bother to advise taking a sidemount course. Of course, that will be one of my first actions this spring when the ice melts. But before I get that far, I want to have my new rig at least most of the way towards being dialed in and ready to hit the water so the instructor can concentrate on things like skills, trim, etc.

 

[Sevenrider860]

1) What is the reason you need to cinch the shoulder harness? Do you have a mobility issue in your shoulder? The shoulder straps should not be so tight that you need a system to loosen them. The Razor shoulder straps are not meant to be loosened every time you don or doff the harness. This goes with the majority of backplate harnesses also. They are meant to be adjusted and not loosened or tightened for each dive.

2) There is nothing specific to sidemount diving that requires a set crotch strap width...however the design of the Razor does not allow a different crotch strap as the crotch strap is also the lumbar component of the harness.

3) This hose is usually tucked under the "Razor" wrap on the right shoulder. You can fold it so it stays tucked under that wrap with the velcro "Razor" wrap.

4) This is a low profile buckle design. I find it easy to tighten and loosen...others may not. You can replace with a standard buckle if you wish.

5) Some travel with cam-bands as their preference. I travel with the SS band clamps and a screw driver. I find that it actually takes up less room than cam-bands and it is very easy to install and adjust at your destination. Use what you are comfortable with.

 

[CGE925]

1) What is the reason you need to cinch the shoulder harness? Do you have a mobility issue in your shoulder? The shoulder straps should not be so tight that you need a system to loosen them. The Razor shoulder straps are not meant to be loosened every time you don or doff the harness. This goes with the majority of backplate harnesses also. They are meant to be adjusted and not loosened or tightened for each dive. No real mobility issues here beyond the normal and occasional age-related seize-ups. I CAN get into the harness when tightened properly, but it is a bit fiddly, though made easier by not having a ton of equipment loaded onto the BCD. I just stupidly assumed that ALL BCDs had adjustable shoulders like my BP/W. At the point of donning, the Razor is just a few pounds of SS and strapping (one of the may benefits of SM) so I can live with the contortions ;o)

2) There is nothing specific to sidemount diving that requires a set crotch strap width...however the design of the Razor does not allow a different crotch strap as the crotch strap is also the lumbar component of the harness. You are, of course, correct, I had forgotten that the webbing ran continuously down the back to the crotch strap and around to the front. It COULD be modded, but I'll just live with the 2" for now. Alternatively, people do cut 2" webbing all the time, and burn the ends to shorten the length, have you heard of anyway doing the same ALONG the webbing, narrowing it in sections?

3) This hose is usually tucked under the "Razor" wrap on the right shoulder. You can fold it so it stays tucked under that wrap with the velcro "Razor" wrap. I do have the Razor wrap, and I get that the inflator can be anchored to the RH shoulder that way. I notice, however, on the GoSideMount web page, Steve Bogaerts, and a lot of others in his marketing photos, are all shown with the inflator coming up their side, some left and some right, across their chest and bolt-snapped to their opposite side shoulder D ring. I guess I'll try it all ways and see what feels best. On a related note, my pre-owned Razor came with the slightly wider 2.75" long inflator logo wrap, but only one shoulder wrap. It is 6.25" long, not 2.75" logo wraps shown in the marketing photos and manual for the shoulder wraps. Are these small pads actually supposed to be shoulder protectors? If so, I guess I'm missing one. Unfortunately, his on-line shop has a limited number ofd replacement parts, and the logo wraps aren't among them. I'll see if DGX or DRIS have alternatives.

4) This is a low profile buckle design. I find it easy to tighten and loosen...others may not. You can replace with a standard buckle if you wish. I'll probably go with the "regular" type of buckle. I don't really need very low-profile where every millimeter counts

5) Some travel with cam-bands as their preference. I travel with the SS band clamps and a screw driver. I find that it actually takes up less room than cam-bands and it is very easy to install and adjust at your destination. Use what you are comfortable with. Fair enough. When you use your own SS band clamps, what material do you use to protect the tank? The ubiquitous bicycle tire?

Thanks for the feedback, very helpful food for thought. Comments above in red.

 

[DevonDiver]

1. Sidemount doesn't have a solid backplate, so there's much more spine and shoulder flexibility. You're also not bearing weight/tanks when you do get harness. If reduced shoulder mobility is a serious medical issue to the user, then an H-type harness makes donning easier.

Sidemount fit is very specific. An inch plus or minus counts A LOT. This doesn't make adjustable harnesses a good idea.. as the fit changes every time you don the rig.

2. Easy to modify the Razor for a separate crotch strap. Just route the spine strap back upwards from the lumbar plate and secure under a webbing retainer. I didn't love the Razor's stiff crotch strap, so I added a soft one. No reason why you couldn't add a 1" strap. I find thinner straps less comfortable though.

3. You can trim down the oral redundant inflator to a more manageable size. It's very easy to deploy and use, given sufficient focused practice.

4. I'm a fan of the Razor belt buckle. It tightens well, there's no parts to fail, it's lightweight and it's low profile for confined environments. You could replace it with a standard buckle if that's your preference.

5. Cam bands aren't quicker than screw bands. You only need to carry a small, cheap screwdriver. Either take seconds to change. Cambands are, however, many times heavier and more bulky.... and prone to loosening and entrapment.

The Razor is a pretty well thought out system. Changing things out because of preconceptions gained outside and before sidemount training isn't that logical.

Sidemount works to inherently different principles than backmount.... it's advisable to do significant research, get expert training and put aside perceptions and preferences you've previously gained from diving backmount.

 

[CGE925]

1. Sidemount doesn't have a solid backplate, so there's much more spine and shoulder flexibility. You're also not bearing weight/tanks when you do get harness. If reduced shoulder mobility is a serious medical issue to the user, then an H-type harness makes donning easier.

Sidemount fit is very specific. An inch plus or minus counts A LOT. This doesn't make adjustable harnesses a good idea.. as the fit changes every time you don the rig.

2. Easy to modify the Razor for a separate crotch strap. Just route the spine strap back upwards from the lumbar plate and secure under a webbing retainer. I didn't love the Razor's stiff crotch strap, so I added a soft one. No reason why you couldn't add a 1" strap. I find thinner straps less comfortable though.

3. You can trim down the oral redundant inflator to a more manageable size. It's very easy to deploy and use, given sufficient focused practice.

4. I'm a fan of the Razor belt buckle. It tightens well, there's no parts to fail, it's lightweight and it's low profile for confined environments. You could replace it with a standard buckle if that's your preference.

5. Cam bands aren't quicker than screw bands. You only need to carry a small, cheap screwdriver. Either take seconds to change. Cambands are, however, many times heavier and more bulky.... and prone to loosening and entrapment.

The Razor is a pretty well thought out system. Changing things out because of preconceptions gained outside and before sidemount training isn't that logical.

Sidemount works to inherently different principles than backmount.... it's advisable to do significant research, get expert training and put aside perceptions and preferences you've previously gained from diving backmount.

Thanks Andy, points taken. FWIW, I'm certainly not trying to re-invent sidemount, or re-design the Razor with my comments and questions, however it may appear. There are many other "mods" I could think of going from a BP/W to SM but would not make any sense, I'm only asking about specific things that I feel would benefit MY specific SM configuration as I work to develop it in these very early stages. It's my understanding that SM is a very personal thing, there are many ways to configure one's own rig, and that is what I'm trying to convey here. Your comment "Changing things out because of preconceptions gained outside and before sidemount training isn't that logical." tells me I shouldn't think for myself, or experiment, and just wait until an expert tells me exactly what MY configuration should be. What's the fun and learning opportunity in that? ;o)

Clearly I'm mistaken about the shoulder straps, I agree. While it is, for me, easier to don a BP/W when the shoulder straps are loosened, they can be immediately re-tightened by yanking on the waist straps to bring the whole rig to the same level of adjustment and tightness every time. I realize that CAN'T be done practically with a system like the Razor that lacks a BP that ties it all together, and I won't try to adapt it. I will dial in the harness to a correct fit and leave it that way. I'm a bit old and creaky, but I will be able to get into it. I don't care for the design of the Razor waist buckle and will use a more standard, lever type. The crotch strap is another thing I will fiddle with, as it's a non-permanent mod and I can go back the continuous 2" strap if necessary. I'd just like to try a slightly narrower one. I get the point about cam bands, I just figured it would be simpler to use them on foreign rental tanks than going with SS straps and some protection layer to prevent damage to the tanks from the tightened straps. The slight extra bulk in a suitcase is not an issue for me.

Thanks again for taking the time to help out this nugget. ;o)

 

[DevonDiver]

Well....the Razor, in particular, is a system designed and manufactured to be operated in a specific way. Steve Bogearts, Hartmann et al did an awful lot of experimentation to reach that design.

I'm not quite sure why a novice, untrained, sidemount diver would second-guess that expertise?

Sidemount configurations and approaches are condensing all the time. There's a few major approaches nowadays, covering some specialist and generalist needs.. that are getting very hard to improve upon.

I'd say that the correct approach is to master these core principles, then having achieved a modicum of expertise, see if you can improve on them.

There's very little to be gained from re-inventing the wheel.

 

[DevonDiver]

Regards a 'protection layer' for SS bands... get some 10mm tubular nylon webbing.

 

[CGE925]

Well....the Razor, in particular, is a system designed and manufactured to be operated in a specific way. Steve Bogearts, Hartmann et al did an awful lot of experimentation to reach that design.

I'm not quite sure why a novice, untrained, sidemount diver would second-guess that expertise?

Sidemount configurations and approaches are condensing all the time. There's a few major approaches nowadays, covering some specialist and generalist needs.. that are getting very hard to improve upon.

I'd say that the correct approach is to master these core principles, then having achieved a modicum of expertise, see if you can improve on them.

There's very little to be gained from re-inventing the wheel.

Thanks Andy, but I guess I'm not being very clear. Based on the feedback from you and others, I understand that most of my initial "ideas" are not necessary, and the only changes I will consider making making are to the waist buckle and POSSIBLY the crotch strap. If you're saying that a newby shouldn't even do that, then I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not "second-guessing" the design, merely trying to adapt it in very small ways to my particular desires in advance of stating training.

 

[DevonDiver]

Just out of interest, what's your desire with regards using a weight belt buckle for sidemount?

 

[johnnywulff]

I modified my Razor harness adding 1,5''quick release on shoulder straps, chest straps so know is a confort style and finally a quick release buckle on the crotch straps, it's very easy to don and doff.