Recent Fatalities - Accident Analysis

[CuriousMe]

neve once bubbled...
Hi,

I must rectify something here. It was determined in the end that the Riau Islands tragedy was not a diving accident. The guy had a massive heart attack and the official autopsy reported the cause of death as such.

It was not a rebreather/solo diving accident, so I don't think it is fair to include the incident in the list of diving accidents.

Thanks.

While I understand your point Neve about it not being ruled a dive accident, isn't it possible this gentleman would have had a better chance to survive this heart attack if he had a buddy with him that noticed?

 

[neve]

My report was meant to inform scubaboarders of the accident and not to inititate discussions about dive-related deaths.

I specifically choose not to discuss what-could-have-been and the things he had done wrong on that fateful day, simply out of respect for his family and friends. I hope you guys can understand this and can spare him the analytical dissection of events leading to his death.

I'd really appreciate it if further discussions about dive-related deaths as well as the pros and cons of solo diving/rebreathers are not based on that piece I wrote.

Thanks again and I wish you all a good day.

 

[vicky]

A couple of divers died in their honey moon in Eilat. They were diving with a third buddy who wasn't injured. According to his briefing the women signaled him that she was out of air. He started sharing air with her but had some problems with his wight-belt so when the husband reached them and started sharing air with his wife the thrid diver tried to fix his belt. In these few seconds he lost the sight of the couple and thought they had surfaced so he went up. Other divers found the couple unconscious at 32 meters and started a rescue procedure. The woman was declared dead on the shore, the husband died in the recompression chamber...
On the very same day a group of stupid divers decided to go start a new dive with only 80 BAR in their tanks. They went down to 15 meters where "suddenly" one of them realized he was out of air...he rocketed to the surface and evacuated in bad condition to the recompression chamber. Why I am calling them "stupids"? Because these type of people give diving a bad reputation...

Dive safely and prosper...

 

[raviepoo]

neve once bubbled...
Hi,

I must rectify something here. It was determined in the end that the Riau Islands tragedy was not a diving accident. The guy had a massive heart attack and the official autopsy reported the cause of death as such.

As I understand it, a heart attack can occur when someone who is not physically fit pushes his or her self beyond his or her physical capabilities. Why isn't a heart attack brought on by stress or exertion while diving considered to be a diving related accident?

Who is more likely to survive a heart attack - a person on dry land in the proximity of other people or a solo diver? If the event occurs while other people are around the victim may at least receive medical attention that may allow them to survive. Even if the victim is diving with a good buddy, the variable of getting them out of the water without drowning or getting bent can make the difference between death and survival.

The gentleman in question may not have died because he was diving solo, but I think he would have had a much better chance of surviving the heart attack if he had not been A - diving abnd B - solo when it occured.

 

[O-ring]

My report was meant to inform scubaboarders of the accident and not to inititate discussions about dive-related deaths. I'd really appreciate it if further discussions about dive-related deaths as well as the pros and cons of solo diving/rebreathers are not based on that piece I wrote.

Sorry you don't like discussing these types of events, but guess what, neither do I nor anyone else on this board or in this sport. If by discussing them we can prevent people from losing their lives by making the same mistakes, well, then I can live with you not liking it. Are these deaths tragedies, you bet. Do I feel badly for the dead and their familes, of course. Do I think that these deaths were preventable by the deceased, in most of these cases 100%.

 

[Rick Murchison]

O-ring once bubbled...
Do I think that these deaths were preventable by the deceased, in most of these cases 100%.

We have a distorted view of heart attacks because everyone we talk to who's had a heart attack has survived it. But the simple fact is that in most cases, (according to more than a few cardiologists I know - so my "data" isn't very scientific) the first symptom of a heart attack is sudden death. And heart attacks are still the number one killer in the United States. In a sport as safe as Scuba, we shouldn't be surprised that heart attacks (and stroke) account for fully half of all Scuba deaths.
---------------------------------------------------------
Still, solo divers must accept the additional risk that sudden disabling events, whether from injury or CVA, will kill them when underwater, simply because when help is required to survive and there's none available, you're dead.
Rick

 

[O-ring]

Ok, Rick. I can agree with that. A lot of times when heart attack strikes the event is not survivable under any circumstances. I, for one, would like to see more AEDs on dive boats, but here in the Northeast I won't be holding my breath.

I just think that anyone's chances are better with a buddy around than without one. At least that way someone can deliver the victim slowly to the surface and administer first responder care and hopefully assist getting the victim into the hands of medical personnel as quickly as possible.

Let's not even touch the rebreather stuff...too charged. However, a device that has the potential to fail and the only warning of failure, in certain circumstances, is rendering the user unconscious underwater should never be used solo, IMHO. That is like asking Dr. Kevorkian over for dinner and taking a couple dramamine before he gets there.

 

[WreckWriter]

O-ring once bubbled...


Sorry you don't like discussing these types of events, but guess what, neither do I nor anyone else on this board or in this sport. If by discussing them we can prevent people from losing their lives by making the same mistakes, well, then I can live with you not liking it. Are these deaths tragedies, you bet. Do I feel badly for the dead and their familes, of course. Do I think that these deaths were preventable by the deceased, in most of these cases 100%.

I have to agree with O-Ring here, we need to learn from the mistakes of those who didn't come back. The only way this can be done is by open discussion of the event and it's causes.

Tom

 

[tchil01]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


I have to agree with O-Ring here, we need to learn from the mistakes of those who didn't come back. The only way this can be done is by open discussion of the event and it's causes.

Tom

Tom

I agree that accidents and deaths should be discussed, studied and debated in order to understand the causes and provide the information so that others can incorporate the findings into their own personal diving education. However, given internet discussion groups in general, and my observations of individuals in this group, I personally do not feel this is the best forum to debate these issues.

I once posted a question about a death while diving on the Algol. I had a dive on the Seeker planned and I was looking for information on a rumor I had heard. While one or two post dealt with the facts, numerous posts focused on slamming the Seeker by people who had never been on it because Captain Dan did not accept GUE certification. Other post went off in a tangent about whether “fat” people should be allowed to dive.

This thread, while expressing the purpose of examining the recent deaths in our sport, actually has been full of inaccurate statements and innuendo and then baited the “****load” of solo divers to come into this arena and debate their choice to dive as they do.

Last night at our dive club meeting a memorial was held for Bill Schmoldt, the diver who died on the Doria. While I didn’t know Bill, many of the group did and for several, he was the reason they became divers. One of the most telling stories was the fact that Bill owned a dive shop for many years… Well, it was more of a combination of dive shop and library. Bill loved diving, loved Northeast wreck diving, and was one of the true pioneers of diving off of New Jersey. Bill’s shop was never a financial success because he ended up giving away more stuff then he sold. But Bill didn’t really care, he was more into diving then he was into making money, and if he could help another diver out, so much the better.

Yes, Bill died diving solo. That was his choice; the same as him choosing to give away stuff from his store rather then make a lot of money. Me personally, I hope I am in this sport long enough to approximate the number of dives Bill did. And If God decides to take me; I hope it is doing something I love, just like it was for Bill.

Ty

 

[raviepoo]

tchil01 once bubbled...


And If God decides to take me; I hope it is doing something I love, just like it was for Bill.

Ty

I know what you mean. I have said before that I want to die either making love or scuba diving. And if my heirs attempt to sue the dive operator, I will haunt them.