Regs for tech diving .?.?.?

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amascuba:
FWIW the X650 is not DIR Compliant. The reason being is that you would be unable to take it apart underwater, without tools, to clean any debree in it.

I'm unfamiliar with a "membrane first stage". Can you elaborate on that?

Their are three types of first stages that I'm aware of. They are unbalanced piston, balanced diaphragm, and balanced piston.

An unbalanced piston regulator are typically the bottom of the line regulators, such as a Scubapro MK2. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an unbalanced piston regulator for recreational depths. Many manufacturers make some unbalanced first stages that are tanks and nearly indestructible. That said, they will only serve one purpose well in technical diving and that is to use them on shallow stage bottles and/or decompression bottles. The reason for this is because the deeper you go, the harder they become at breathing from. This can cause some extra task-loading at depth that you really wouldn't need.

Balanced diaphragm regulators are very popular in many realms of diving and are the most common type of regulator around. It uses a rubber diaphragm to direct gas through the first stage. The bad thing about that is the potential of the diaphragm failing, but you don't see that happening to often, and even less likely in regulators that are submitted for regular servicing, as specified by the manufacture. An example of a balanced diaphragm first stage would be the Scubapro MK17, Oceanic CDX, Salvo SR1 and SR2, Apeks DS4, etc. It's also worth noting that most balanced diaphragm regulators are environmentally sealed, which makes them very useful in colder water environments, such as ice diving.


The balanced piston first stages are tanks as well. These use a piston to direct gas through the first stage, but a major difference between them and an unbalanced piston is the pressure on both sides of the piston is equal. This makes it ideal for deeper dives, where having a good, constant, easy breathing regulator helps cut down on the task loading. An example of a balanced piston regulator is the Scubapro MK25.

A Scubapro MK25/S600 combo is an excellent work horse of a regulator. The only thing that I do not like about them is the turret on the MK25.

Unfortunately with your question you are going to get mostly opinions on what the best regulator is. There isn't a good answer. You could go read the numerous articles in scuba diving magazine about good regulators, but most of the companies being tested in those articles paid scuba diving magazine to do so, and it leaves out hundreds of other models out of the article.

I have four regulators. I have two Salvo SR1 first stages with Scubapro G250 second stages for my doubles, an Oceanic DX4 first stage w/ Oceanic GT second stage for my single tank dives, and a Aeres A1 for my decompression tank. If I was to buy another regulator today I would probably buy a Salvo SR1, but not necessarily because it's the best regulator out there, but because of the availability of service parts. That's not to say that I don't think the Salvo regulator isn't a good regulator, it is and I'll continue to do business with them.

The difference in how a balanced and unbalanced reg breaths at depth has NOTHING to do with the balancing. It has to do with the size of the opening the gas passes thru. Unbalanced piston regs have very small opening for the gas to pass thru. Gas density at depth also affects this (offset somewhat by using helium).


Balancing in fact on a first stage will only matter as the presure from the tank changes.

By the way both Psoedina nd Mares made unbalanced diaphram regs in the past, in fact the unbalanced diaphrams from Posedin helped make their name as what was at one time considered the best tech reg on the market.
 
I started out with Apeks DS4 first stages, an ATX200 for my primary second and a TX50 for my bungeed second on my doubles rig. I've since replaced the DS4's with ScubaPro MK25's and replaced my ATX200 with an S600.

My reason for replacing the first stages is that I like the way the MK25's route better ... having a low-pressure port coming out the bottom of the first stage just seems make the houses lie along the back of the rig cleaner. My reason for replacing the ATX200 with the S600 is because the Apeks second stages tend to breathe wet if you go a bit upside down or sideways while breathing them ... the S600 doesn't.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Ditto. I quit using everything I had and switched to Zeagles straight across the board.
 
Started with Apeks because that's what all the cool kids were doing, switched backgas to Atomics because that's what all the cool kids are doing now.

Never miss getting onto a trend.
 
partridge:
Any comments on the MK17/R390 combo?

My plan is to use these for the doubles setup to start and upgrade later on. These can then be used on the deco bottles.

Any flaws in my plan?

None that I can see:
I use MK17/R190/G200 on one set of doubles and
I use MK10/R190 on another set.
Both work for me.
I will also add that I've not gone over 160 ft with them yet either.
 
There seem to be two clear favourites in the DIR Tech community: the Scubapro MK25/S600 and the Apeks DS4. Performance and reliability on both is reportedly top-notch. Of these two, I would personally go for the Scubapro because of the the nicer hose routing possible due to the LP port at the end the first stage; in a doubles rig the DS4 first stage (to my eye, anyway), forces the hoses into tighter radius bends, putting more strain on the hoses. This would be, to me, a more likely potential source of failure than the more incremental differences between piston and diaphragm designs. Note, though, that I have no numbers to back that claim up; it's just a feeling. Others may beg to differ, please speak up if you do... :)

Another option that is DIR-compliant is the Atomic Z2: hose routing is perfect like the MK25, it has no unnecessary convolutions like second stage swivels, and the front cover of the second stage can be removed to clear debris etc. It is a balanced piston design that breathes beautifully, and I haven't (yet) had any issues with it breathing wet or of the backup reg freeflowing. It can be ordered as DIN, and there is also a cold-water kit available, so I imagine it'd cover most of your present and future needs; certainly it's done me good service in BC waters. With a good warranty and a two-year service interval, I'd recommend it.
 
lamont:
Started with Apeks because that's what all the cool kids were doing, switched backgas to Atomics because that's what all the cool kids are doing now.

Never miss getting onto a trend.

Lamont: Which Atomics are all the cool kids using? I'm curious since the M1 can have the cave ring added, but has a first stage swivel...

Jeremy, like the Atomics as well, but then we're both a bit biased. :wink:


Bjorn
 
U may consider Apeks ATX200/XTX 200 pretty high performance balance regs, I have Apeks and Scubapro MK25/S600, MK17/S555 and Apeks ATX200, happy on it
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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