Regs need servicing...

[SeaJay]

I wanted to get my regs detuned a bit from their stock factory position, and so last time I was in High Springs I brought them by EE...

Well, they told me that my intermittent pressure was like 165, and that my 1st stage was not adjusting properly. They simply recommended doing a rebuild of the 1st stage, since, after all, it IS life support. These regs are only about five months old, and have something like 115 dives on them.

EE told me that they can do the service on the regs, but that it was going to take a while... I'd have to drop off my regs and they could do them in a couple of days, after they get the parts in for a MK16/S550/R380. They said that servicing might cost in the realm of $40 or so.

Since I live in SC and was only "stopping by" EE, I told him I'd have my LDS do it in SC.

...So I called today. My "LDS" isn't really "L." It's an hour and a half away. I called them and asked if I could bring my regs by and have them serviced, since they were due. I told him about the pressure problem and he liked the idea of rebuilding too.

He asked me if they were under warranty. I said no, but that I would pay for the service, no problem.

...So he followed it with, "You're looking at $60 for the service, at least $30 in parts, and that's for the first stage only." Plan on spending like $110 to $140. If you drop them off today, I can have them done for you in a couple of weeks."

...I 'bout fell outta my chair. "A couple of weeks? Dude, doesn't everyone who buys regs from you get service around once a year on them? Do you not have the parts sitting around to do a reg service?" (They're a huge shop.)

"Lemme look..." (Comes back in a couple of minutes.) "No, we're going to have to order the parts. How soon do you need them back?"

That wasn't the point... But I told him that I was diving on the 16th of this month and that I definitely was going to be using MY regs for the dive.

"Man, doing a reg service is something that should take what... An hour? Two, even? Probably not even that long! How long does it take to get the parts in? I was hoping to schedule something so that I could come up there and have you work on my regs while I was there... After all, I'm an hour and a half away." (He knows me and where I live.) "Dude, if I have to make two trips up there, that's like... Six hours of driving - and $125 or so - just to get my regs serviced."

"Yep."

Man, I'm floored by the LDS' crappy service.

Any other ideas before I pack these regs up and FedEx them overnight to EE to have them properly looked at?

I ended my call by telling the kid... "Man, that's insane. I can't believe the price that you just gave me... And the amount of time! Are you insane? I can buy a whole new first stage for less money than you're asking just for the annual service. Forget that, man... At your prices, I'll learn to service my own regs. Sorry to waste your time, my friend."

...And guess what? That's the last time I call that shop. I've had it with crappy LDS attitudes.

 

[Charlie99]

The other reason I've seen for slow turnaround on reg service is that the LDS contracts it out.

My regs are normally serviced by a guy that drops by several dive shops every Wednesday to return regs he's worked on, and to pick up a new batch. So depending upon what day you drop off your reg, the turnaround is between 1 and 2 weeks.

BTW SeaJay, it pretty simple to make an intermediate pressure gauge so you can check your IP and make sure it's not "intermittent" :tongue:

 

[MikeFerrara]

Best get used to servicing your own because your shops price doesn't sound very high to me. I don't know how many people work in the shop but we usually don't service regs when the shop is open. We only have one person during the day and being interupted every 5 minutes to answer the phone is a good way to screw things up.

Just for reference, while some reg kits are pretty cheap we pay over $40 (don't remember exactly) for an Apeks kit (which we get from Zeagle) so there isn't any way I'd service a reg for $40.

The cheapest parts we get are twenty something for first and one second stage so I still wouldn't do the reg for $40.

Most shops around here are about $75 plus parts.

 

[SeaJay]

...On a hunch, I just called my "other" LDS... The one I know carries Scubapro gear... Which is an hour and ten minutes south of me (the one I was complaining about above is an hour and a half north of me).

Anyway, I talked to "BK," the self-professed "old man of the shop."

I told him what was going on... He said, "I charge $15 per stage. Parts - if you need them - are (runs through list for parts on each of my stages, ranging from $12 for all of the parts to $16 for all of the parts). 'Normal turnaround' is about six days."

...So I asked him if I could schedule something with him six or seven days from now (since I made the assumption that the time was because there were other regs ahead of mine) so that I only had to make the trip once.

His reply: "You want them done while you wait?"

"Jeez... I hate to say it, but that would be really convienent if I could schedule something with you... See, I gotta drive an hour and ten minutes to your store, and two trips means more than four and a half hours of driving..."

"Sure... No problem. Bring them in tomorrow... It'll cost you an additional $15 to do them while you wait."

I'm glad to pay the price for the extra service.

Okay, I think I might have found a good LDS, y'all... Man, would that make my life easier.

"Hey, my girlfriend is about to buy the same setup," I said. "Can I bring to you the prices and see what you can do to come close? I would really rather buy from a local dive shop than from some oddball place online."

"Yeah, man... You bet! We'll take care of you. Let us have the opportunity to meet or beat their price. We've done it before, and we'll do it again."

"Wow... Do you do Nitrox fills? Can I do an Advanced Nitrox course with you?"

"There's nobody better to teach you."

Hot damn...

The shop that gave me the $125 quote to service my first stage only: Charleston Scuba, Charleston SC.

The shop that is actually showing promise: Dive Locker/Ski Chalet, Savannah GA. I've been there before and been impressed. The shop's huge because they never have an "off season." Half the store's scuba (good stuff, too) and half the store's skiing (don't do it, so I can't judge the gear). There are "specialists" in each department. They carry Zeagle, Scubapro and Dive Rite as their top-of-the-line "tech" gear, and so I just kept looking, last time I was looking for an LDS.

...But this guy's attitude - and their ability to train and service what they sell - might win me over. It sure would be nice to have a decent LDS, even if it is an hour and ten minutes away.

I'll keep y'all posted on how servicing goes.

 

[redacted]

I would suggest you start with an adjustment of the IP before you buy in to a full service. As long as the IP is still locking up OK, the adjustment back to 135 may do the trick. Although, if you know the IP was in spec and has climbed to 165, an overhaul is probably in the cards for the Mk16. I would not automatically service the 2nds but I also believe annual service is overkill

His price seems a bit high but not totally out of line for a good service. I'm sure there's a 10-20% LP punishment included. Next shop you call, get a labor price before you fess up to the online purchase. I service my own stuff and it usually takes me around 6 hours to do a first & two 2nds at the kitchen table. Lots of time spent inspecting, cleaning, adjusting and testing. Shop has to be better equipped and more efficient but if he's much quicker than a couple hours, I'd worry about getting an underhaul rather than an overhaul.

And then buy or build an IP guage so you can moniter the condition of that 1st stage. An automobile compression guage and a $10.00 scuba adapter (leisurepro of course) will work fine.

 

[redacted]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

Just for reference, while some reg kits are pretty cheap we pay over $40 (don't remember exactly) for an Apeks kit (which we get from Zeagle) so there isn't any way I'd service a reg for $40.

Apeks parts kits, online, are 19.00 EUR for 1st stage and 9.00 EUR per 2nd stage. Apex seems expencive on kits. When Diveinn offered them, the R380 was about $5.00 and the S600/S550 around $8.00.

 

[SeaJay]

awap once bubbled...
I would suggest you start with an adjustment of the IP before you buy in to a full service. As long as the IP is still locking up OK, the adjustment back to 135 may do the trick. Although, if you know the IP was in spec and has climbed to 165, an overhaul is probably in the cards for the Mk16. I would not automatically service the 2nds but I also believe annual service is overkill

I'm just going on what EE said. They said they tried to adjust the IP, but weren't able to... And thus would recommend a service.

When I get the regs in there tomorrow, we'll see what really needs to be done.

His price seems a bit high but not totally out of line for a good service. I'm sure there's a 10-20% LP punishment included.

Heheheheeee...

Next shop you call, get a labor price before you fess up to the online purchase. I service my own stuff and it usually takes me around 6 hours to do a first & two 2nds at the kitchen table. Lots of time spent inspecting, cleaning, adjusting and testing. Shop has to be better equipped and more efficient but if he's much quicker than a couple hours, I'd worry about getting an underhaul rather than an overhaul.

Interesting.

And then buy or build an IP guage so you can moniter the condition of that 1st stage. An automobile compression guage and a $10.00 scuba adapter (leisurepro of course) will work fine.

I am very mechanically inclined... If I had a clue as to how to do this overhaul, I'd do it myself.

...So how do I gain that knowlege? And don't I need specialized tools and measuring devices to work on something like this?

 

[redacted]

SeaJay once bubbled...


I am very mechanically inclined... If I had a clue as to how to do this overhaul, I'd do it myself.

...So how do I gain that knowlege? And don't I need specialized tools and measuring devices to work on something like this?

The best start point is : www.airspeedpress.com
For $50.00 you'll get all the basic knowledge. Even if you don't go DIY you will have a good understanding of what makes that stuff work & not work; how to take care of minor problems; and what to expect from your LDS.

While "special tools" make it easier, the more expensive ones can be worked around or done without. Others can be home made or purchased at reasonable prices. The $25.00 IP guage is the only essential measuring device. It just takes a bit more time and patients to get it right.

Parts are the toughest part, but they can be had. My Mk20/G500 went almost 4 years on just cleaning, lubing, and adjusting before I had to do a full service.

 

[RichLockyer]

SeaJay once bubbled...
I am very mechanically inclined... If I had a clue as to how to do this overhaul, I'd do it myself.
...So how do I gain that knowlege? And don't I need specialized tools and measuring devices to work on something like this?

Start with a read of Vance's regulator repair book. Buy the O2 Hacker's guide as well... the two books tie into each other a bit.

Now locate the factory service manuals for your specific regs.

Specialized measuring devices consist of an IP gauge (easy to make a good one from parts at Sears, or about $20 on Ebay) and a Mag ($135 from here http://www.scubatools.com/Gauge.html )

You may need a spanner wrench for the 1st, depending on the design. You'll need a set of BRASS O-ring picks (brass won't scratch your stainless parts) and a couple of plastic o-ring picks for the few plastic parts you may have in the 2nd.
You'll need a vise, and a "holder" for the reg... also available from Scubatools/Peterbuilt.

You've got one adjustment on the 1st stage... the IP. Get that right and you're set there.
You've got two adjustments on the 2nd... lever height and balance spring tension. The two work with each other. Lever height is set by adjusting the screw that you see down inside the reg when you disconnect the hose.

You CAN do this without a mag... a "poor man's mag" would be a short tube sealed tightly to the mouthpiece opening, marked like a ruler with the distance from the diaphragm.
Submerge the reg face-down, and if the spec calls for it to open at 2" H2O, then the reg should freeflow as soon as the water level crosses 2".

Apeks service procedures don't even call for a mag test.

 

[RichLockyer]

SeaJay once bubbled...
...So how do I gain that knowlege? And don't I need specialized tools and measuring devices to work on something like this?

The problem is going to be getting the service kits