regular BC's vs. winged BC's ??

[Gaucho]

I hear the winged BC's are more comfortable underwater, apart from being suitable for more technical diving (multiple tanks), caves, etc. Also, Im told that regular BC's are "safer" for surface use because when inflated these tend to keep the tank below water and your face above [good for a sun-tan ]. Does this mean that a winged BC would keep tend to keep your tank up and your face in the water?

The latter is my real question, since if under an emergency situation you dumped your weights, inflated your suit and on the way up blacked-out, I guess it would be a lot better to have a BC that would leave you face up when on the surface...

Would appreciate the points of view of all experienced divers out there... Thanks!!

 

[sky50960]

I always had surface problems with my wing BC ( dive rite )
On surface it always tendet to flip ahead almost putting my face into water and certainly when a wave hits you in the back.
This problem did not occure when i was diving with 2 tanks on my BC wing because this was heavier ( in the back )
They are very confortable while swimming horizontaly and certainly for " horizontal boby " position during DECO stop.
They have a BIG volume because they are supposed to carry sometimes more than 2 tanks ( technical diving )
I also like them because you dont have those bulky pockets on the side like a conventionel BC does.
When you inflate a wing everything occures in the back, no lateral squeezing when inflated

If you want the advantage of both wing BC an Conventional BC try the seac sub pro 2000 BC wich is a half dorsal BC, you can put some weights in back pockets of the BC to correct the surface body position for safety
I use the BC now, it as a great volume keeping you high over the water surface and has a tendancy to really flip back even when when weights are not in the back pockets; it keeps you safe on the surface.
...dont forget some sun protection cream and diving sun glasses...

have a look : http://www.divernet.com/equipment/1200divertests.htm#seac

But you can also have a look at the Mares Dragonfly : http://www.divernet.com/equipment/1100divertests.htm

 

[Warhammer]

Yes, winged BCs do tend to push you face foward into the water, but you can easily compensate for this by adding counter weights on the back of the BC or tank.

 

[sky50960]

Yes ok that is why some BC have back weight pockets.
In case you use a pure tech BC you can also put some weights onto the tank if needed.
But don't fortget a empty tank when surfacing is not as heavy than before the dive session; so you would nee a little more weigth at the end of the dive than in the beginning; you might have to consider that in some BC's.
Whith the dive rite a used before i feld the difference in weight before and after the dive ( used a 20 litre steel tank ).


Fa

 

[WetDane]

Ok - this is clearly going to sound like flame and it is not really meant that way - BUT...

If your wings push you forward in the water - I woudl tend to say that this is because you are not properly balanced - move the weights on your weightbelt to the back and see what that does, then work with the height placement of your tank relative to your shoulders...

SO - I guess the flame part is that if you have problems and you don't get it worked out in a couple of dives - uhm - well - work on it...

I dive wings - as does nearly everyone I know and getting dipped involuntarily is something people try when thye first switch, then they get balanced and it is never a problem again - I can't think of a single person who is considering changing back to a jacket style BC...

Dane

 

[sky50960]

OK very good reply.
It is chourly very pertinent; this balance is very inportant.
I certainly tend to translate the weights to the back of my belt but it does not change a lot to me.
Second i dont like to dive with a lot of weights pushing into my back ( hyperextention ) after a while it starts to hurt. I prefere to have them on the side. Carrying the same amonth of weigth on the back or lateral i feel more confortable with mainly lateral weights.
Second i must tell that my position on surface using my wing BC is very high over the water and almost vertical with a slight back flip.
You are certainly sure a Wing is certainly great and i feel very safe with it.
But would you recomend a wing to a beginner ( for first open water dives )?.


Thanks



fa

 

[Gaucho]

Some great answers, thanks. Do the better winged BCs have integrated weight belts that allow you to place the weight in the rear sections to counterbalance the surface issues?

 

[WetDane]

Yeah Gaucho,

Both the modular Dive Rite II which I highly recommend and a true backplate/wing setup like that from Halcyon have the options of using integrated weight pockets - they are usually included in the purchase price.

One of the key freatures as far as I am concerned is that these BC's are modular and allow you to modify them in almost any way you want - they also make it easier to carry a canister light on your harnes belt.

If I was you I would stick with the DiveRite Transpac II or the Halcyon BP/wings.

As far as having a novice diver use this for their first open water dives - I have no problem with it - I would actually prefer that over a jacket style BC simply because this is far more comfortable in the water and whiel you have DM's and instructors around is a really good time to also get your balance figured out with some experienced people handy.

Dane

 

[svs3]

1) As to how to correct your surface trim issues - experiment. Tank weights, keel weights, moving weight to the rear on your weight belt, blah blah blah, etc, etc. I'm sure you get the idea.

2) BCDs are not PFD. No bcd, to my knowledge has obtained a Coast Guard certification. To expect a BCD to maintain a diver in a "head out water" position in emergency situation is to invite trouble. But you should know that. In cases where sea state is an issue, my experience is most bcd's, regardless of style, take work by the diver to keep a head's up orientation. Along these lines let me quickly relate the following observation: recently I took part in a NAUI rescue diver class (I am a DM canidate). In this class was represented most major types of BCD from SP stab jackets to my Halcyon wings/bp setup to simple DACOR rental BCDs. All were unreliable at best with regard to keeping "unconsciencous"(sp?) victim's face out of the water without constant attention for the rescuer.

3)There is a DIR principle that states one should not sacrifice underwater performance for above surface convenience. This is classic case in point. I concur with WD that most experienced (and all the tech divers I know) that have tried wings/back floatation don't go back to a more conventional bcd. The reason for the switch in most cases revolves around the fact that wings tend to put divers in the most hydrodynamic position while underwater - horizontal. Additionally, a wings/bp setup generally has much less drag underwater than a conventional bcd.

4) There is nothing advanced about wings/back inflation I know a couple of newly certified divers that dive the Halcyon wing/bp combo and love it.

Sorry to ramble,
svs3

P.S. In my opinion, points 2 and 3, as well as several others, make the issue of surface position a bit of white elephant. After all, how much time do really expect to spend on the surface?

 

[sky50960]

Of course a BC has to be hydrodynamic, some no tech BC are hydrodynamic.
When you add 3 or 4 bottles to a tech BC your hydrodynacs is gone.

Why do you need a BC????
You can dive very "hydrodynac" without any BC; just a tank and regulator. ( i did it, it is a bit sporty )
BC's makes you able to reduce dive effort and enhances safety and surface safety and certainly when the sea conditions are a little ruf on surface.

Of course a BC is made to be used under water, but the surface time is also very important regarding safety.

A BC is to mee at least a safety jacket wathever the coast guard think or say about it.

Fa