Regulator advise request

[PfcAJ]

The apex was boUght in 2005 and had 600 dives on it and was serviced regularly. I do not know the technicalities of the failure but know the first stage has failed and will not hold pressure (the shop hooked it up to a tank and over a short period of time, instead of holding steady the pressure changed. I think it increased but again not totally sure of the details. I just know it is unsafe to dive with.

Sounds like it needs to be serviced. That's way cheaper than buying a new reg.

 

[designbysue]

yeah, I have never seen or heard of a regulator just "giving out", there isn't much to them to fail beyond repair.... Also what is a scubapro apex.....

Sorry. Apex reg I think by Aqua Lung. My mistake?

 

[redacted]

The apex was boUght in 2005 and had 600 dives on it and was serviced regularly. I do not know the technicalities of the failure but know the first stage has failed and will not hold pressure (the shop hooked it up to a tank and over a short period of time, instead of holding steady the pressure changed. I think it increased but again not totally sure of the details. I just know it is unsafe to dive with.

I have been reading other posts and like the reports of the atomics but am concerned about the fact that they need to be under pressure to clean. If I had a pony this would not be a problem but I do nit want to carry the extra weight. Any input on this concern? Radtype having 2 of them have you had any problems? Anyone else?

I believe your shop has decided that you need to give them more money. Unless you just don't mind being taken, I suggest you understand exactly what those "technicalities of the failure" are before you retire a perfectly good regulator.

Every part has a name. This link (http://www.frogkick.dk/manuals/apeks/) will take you to an Apeks 1st manual (ATX200) including a schematic. Ask them to point out the part or parts that are bad. I assume the unstable pressure you refer to is the intermediate pressure. While a few replaceable o-ring might also be involved, stable IP is mostly a matter of having good hard and soft seats (p/n 13 and 14). both of which are replacable in an Apeks 1st Stage.

 

[designbysue]

Sounds like it needs to be serviced. That's way cheaper than buying a new reg.

I thought my explanation was clear enough but maybe not. It cannot be repaired? Servicing is not an option. It is unsafe. The cost to rebuild it is $400 so what is the point of that. I can get a new one for that price.

 

[2cold4california]

B2 or MK25/A700

M1,Z3, and MK25/S600 are also acceptable.

If you dive cold water just get a mares mr12 and a cold water kit no reason to splurge on piston regs

---------- Post added August 7th, 2014 at 08:30 PM ----------

Oh and I would advise against the Titanium stuff if you plan on doing a lot of nitrox diving. That is where a B2 or Z3 and especially an M1 is better for corrosion resistance. Titanium is great at not corroding in water, not so much in 80% oxygen.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Oh and I would advise against the Titanium stuff if you plan on doing a lot of nitrox diving. That is where a B2 or Z3 and especially an M1 is better for corrosion resistance. Titanium is great at not corroding in water, not so much in 80% oxygen.

First, don't confuse titanium in the 2nd stage (largely irrelevant for O2 purposes) with titanium in the 1st stage (very relevant for O2 purposes). The only Ti that sees any gas in the Z3, B2, or M1 is the valve body in the B2's 2nd stage. All three regs have the same brass-body 1st stage (the Z3 and the B2 have SS pistons, while the M1 has a monel piston), so no worries there. If you think titanium is a risk when exposed to high O2 levels at intermediate pressure, I expect you to tell me what O2-clean toothpaste you're using, too.

Second, of the three AA regs the OP listed, the Z3 and M1 are basically tied for being the least corrosion resistant (re: 2nd stage components...they're all basically identical in terms of 1st stage). The chromed-brass valve tube the Z3 (for cost savings) and M1 (for heat exchange) use isn't super resistant to corrosion; the B2's titanium valve tube is super resistant to corrosion and not a big deal in terms of O2 safety...but suboptimal for colder water as I already mentioned because brass conducts heat much better than TI (or SS, which is what I once thought AA should consider using if they were obsessed with keeping TI out of their O2-focused reg).

Finally, to the OP, you don't need to clean AA regs under pressure. You should execise a modicum of common sense, however: if it's not pressurized, you can either be very careful to not depress the purge button while soaking the reg, or, you can soak the 2nd stage as vigorously as you like so long as you keep the 1st stage elevated above it - water's not going to run up the hose. The first stage, like any other reg, will be fine when soaked unpressurized so long as there's a watertight seal at the dust cap (opinions vary on how good such caps are at that task).

In any event, a bit of fresh water sneaking into the reg won't hurt jack (and happens on any reg any time the purge is fully depressed while soaking). Salt water...not good.

 

[2cold4california]

First, don't confuse titanium in the 2nd stage (largely irrelevant for O2 purposes) with titanium in the 1st stage (very relevant for O2 purposes). The only Ti that sees any gas in the Z3, B2, or M1 is the valve body in the B2's 2nd stage. All three regs have the same brass-body 1st stage (the Z3 and the B2 have SS pistons, while the M1 has a monel piston), so no worries there. If you think titanium is a risk when exposed to high O2 levels at intermediate pressure, I expect you to tell me what O2-clean toothpaste you're using, too.

Second, of the three AA regs he listed, the Z3 and M1 are basically tied for being the least corrosion resistant (re: 2nd stage components...they're all basically identical in terms of 1st stage). The chromed-brass valve tube the Z3 (for cost savings) and M1 (for heat exchange) use isn't super resistant to corrosion; the B2's titanium valve tube is super resistant to corrosion and not a big deal in terms of O2 safety...but suboptimal for colder water as I already mentioned because brass conducts heat much better than TI (or SS, which is what I once thought AA should consider using if they were obsessed with keeping TI out of their O2-focused reg).

Finally, to the OP, you don't need to clean AA regs under pressure. You should execise a modicum of common sense, however: if it's not pressurized, you can either be very careful to not depress the purge button while soaking the reg, or, you can soak the 2nd stage as vigorously as you like so long as you keep the 1st stage elevated above it - water's not going to run up the hose. The first stage, like any other reg, will be fine when soaked unpressurized so long as there's a watertight seal at the dust cap (opinions vary on how good such caps are at that task).

In any event, some fresh water in the reg hose won't hurt jack. Salt water...not good.

I was referring to the T1/2/3 series which I believe do have titanium 1st stage components which are exposed to high pressure.

The B2 and Z3 are identical in corrosion resistance. The second stages are different (and I personally believe the B2 is superior).

 

[diversteve]

I have been reading other posts and like the reports of the atomics but am concerned about the fact that they need to be under pressure to clean. If I had a pony this would not be a problem but I do nit want to carry the extra weight. Any input on this concern? Radtype having 2 of them have you had any problems? Anyone else?

I've had a B1 (not 2) and now own a T2. If you submerge the regulator unpressurized there is a slight possibility that water could leak past the seat saver orifice and into the 1st stage thru the hose. So the simple solution is keep the 1st stage higher than the 2nd while soaking it - the chance of water running uphill is pretty small... To soak the 1st stage, keep the 2nd's out of the water. It's a little more work but it's one of the reason why Atomic's have the 2 year service interval

I'm not always that careful. Sometimes I forget or forget to tell the person soaking my gear - we do a lot of "valet" diving at resorts so sometimes they're not aware of it. My tech has never commented on any issues with either one. Once he told me the only reason he changed the parts was because it was apart.

If I didn't own a T2, I would've bought a Mk25T/S600T instead. The MK17 is considered more of a cold water reg if you dive locally.

Subgear is a lower end line.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

The OP never mentioned the T-series, but we agree they have Ti-bodies on the first stages and are only suitable with 40% or lower O2 mixes (and only then with a lot of expensive monel inside the expensive titanium bodies).

The B2 and Z3 are not identical in corrosion resistance because they have different second stage valve body materials: as I already said several times, the B2 has a titanium valve tube in the second stage (which, along with the standard comfort swivel on the hose, is responsible for the ~$300 price difference between a sealed Z3 and a B2), while the Z3 has a chromed brass valve tube. The second stage cases are the same between the Z3 and B2 (and every other AA reg's second stage for that matter) and should thus breathe the same.

YMMV, but don't confuse your subjective experience with the regs with how they're actually built.

 

[PfcAJ]

I thought my explanation was clear enough but maybe not. It cannot be repaired? Servicing is not an option. It is unsafe. The cost to rebuild it is $400 so what is the point of that. I can get a new one for that price.

My recommendation is to take it to another shop for a 2nd opinion.

There are very few modes for a regulator to be unrepairable.

You've got guys here telling you that something sounds fishy here, and we're trying to prevent you from getting shafted by a dive shop who wants to sell you something new when you don't need something new.

Now, if you're dead set on trashing your reg, mail your junked regulator to me. I'll pay postage and give you 10 bucks as a 'thank you'.