Rescue course... have manual, need the end of chapter tests

[Scott]

That's not a requirement anymore. PADI instructors are not required to keep a copy of the OW Knowledge Reviews. The instructor must attest to having seen the completed KR and sign off. That's it. I do think they are required to keep a copy of the KR's for continuing education.

That's true for OW but the OP is talking about Rescue

Knowledge Reviews
Each section in the PADI Rescue Diver Manual ends with a knowledge review.
Student divers must complete knowledge reviews prior to the corresponding
Rescue Training Session. You must review any questions
missed or left incomplete until the student diver demonstrates mastery.
After a thorough review, have the diver verify understanding by signing
and dating the statement on each knowledge review. The PADI Rescue
Diver Course Prescriptive Lesson Guides is a useful tool for reviewing the knowledge
review questions. You must document completion and review of Knowledge
Reviews in the diver’s permanent records (Student Record File recommended).

Since these are no 'check boxes' on the SRF for Rescue Diver this leads me to believe they must be turned in.

 

[DBailey]

For both the Open Water and Rescue sections in the Instructor's Manual, the student required materials include "a personal set of materials for study and use..."

Using someone else's Rescue Manual less the knowledge reviews wouldn't count as a personal set of materials, as this is the other person's personal set.

 

[Jim Kerr]

It could be worse. I have a Rescue manual I bought a few years ago, completed all the KR's but never got around to taking the class. I decided I would take the class this year but noticed at the shop that the manuals looked different. I found out that my manual was out dated and I have to buy the new one to take the class. Mine has the CPR & First Aid included but the new ones do not because they now give it as a seperate course in EFR which I just took. I still think I should be able to use it, it's the same agency.

 

[halocline]

HUH??? The instructors do not "work" for PADI, we just use their materials and procedures to teach - and if you photocopy anything for use, your personal or someone else's, it's a violation of the copyright laws. That was directly from someone (an examiner) who DOES work for PADI at their corporate office.....

It's definitely not a violation of copyright law for the owner of the copyright to copy the material. (That's why its called a copyright) On my DM books it says (c) PADI 2002-2007...which means PADI has the "right to copy" and distribute, which is the crux of the law. Now, I can't dispute if you're right about the employment relationship between the instructor and PADI, but since it is a PADI class and the instructor is acting as an agent of PADI in the teaching of the class, I would bet anything that no U.S. court would consider the instructor's copying of parts of the materials for the convenient access of the students as a copyright violation. PADI would be essentially suing one their own instructors. I can't imagine any court taking that one, unless of course the instructor really did something deliberately damaging to PADI.

Again, though, none of this really matters because PADI can make whatever rules it wants about class materials, could easily forbid instructors from copying anything and threaten to revoke their license if they violate that rule. Same practical effect. But it's not a copyright law issue. Sorry for splitting hairs here! I don't dispute for a second that PADI would have rules against this.

I'm a published composer with lots of copyrights, and I teach a course that includes copyright issues pertaining to the Music Industry. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.

 

[caseybird]

Just checked my instructor manual (and i think it was 2yrs or more).
I have to sign the record to say i've verified and gone over the completed reviews. I dont have to keep them or keep a copy of them.

This change came in about the same time as the change saying everyone must own a manual for the reason of people in shared households etc are allowed to share books but needed the KRs.

Well then, I stand corrected.
Thanks,

 

[neil]

I'm a published composer with lots of copyrights, and I teach a course that includes copyright issues pertaining to the Music Industry. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.

Just out of curiosity:
Scenario 1- So, I'm a tenured member of my local symphony which commissions a piece by you. As an agent of the symphony, may I make copies of the parts?

Scenario 2- The orchestra purchases the parts from your publisher. May I copy the parts?

Scenario 3- The orchestra rents the parts from your publisher. May I copy the parts?

Which one of these examples most closely resembles the relationship I have with PADI as a PADI instructor?

Anyway,
I think that PADI essentially licenses us to use their material, and we are not party to their copyright. I fear you 'd lose that bet and PADI would prevail in a lawsuit. But you have to get caught first.

 

[kdove]

You know, Hobbes, I don't think my lucky rocketship underpants are helping me here!!
( is that a copyright violation??)

 

[neil]

You know, Hobbes, I don't think my lucky rocketship underpants are helping me here!!
( is that a copyright violation??)

Pssst, kdove, I'm not wearing any lucky rocketship underpants! Are we going to be hearing from Bill Watterson's lawyers?

 

[halocline]

Just out of curiosity:
Scenario 1- So, I'm a tenured member of my local symphony which commissions a piece by you. As an agent of the symphony, may I make copies of the parts?

Scenario 2- The orchestra purchases the parts from your publisher. May I copy the parts?

Scenario 3- The orchestra rents the parts from your publisher. May I copy the parts?

Which one of these examples most closely resembles the relationship I have with PADI as a PADI instructor?

Anyway,
I think that PADI essentially licenses us to use their material, and we are not party to their copyright. I fear you 'd lose that bet and PADI would prevail in a lawsuit. But you have to get caught first.

In the three scenarios, the composer and/or publisher retains the copyright, even on commissioned works. So nobody working for the orchestra can copy and distribute parts. In fact, once the orchestra has purchased or rented (almost all professional orchestra music still under copyright is rental) music for a performance, they still have to pay the publisher/composer a license fee for performing it. That's why ASCAP and BMI exist. There is some ambiguity as to how much of the music can be legally copied in order to better facilitate performance. (like a page turn in a passage where the musician's hands are busy) A slightly more relevant analogy might be a school band or orchestra that purchases music for performance and then the director photocopies the parts so that the students can write on their parts, retains the originals, and then collects the copies after the performance. This is widely done, and is considered fair use. A music publisher could challenge it, I guess, but I've never heard of that.

In PADI's case, if you are under license to use the materials, it must be part of a larger "franchise" type arrangement? Where the instructor pays PADI a portion of the student's course fees? And with the materials, only licensed PADI shops can buy the books directly from PADI, and then the shop sells them to the students at a mark up? Is that sort of how it goes? That would kind of make sense, and there's built in motivation for the instructor to sell individual copies to all students. I still think that photocopying a few pages of the book would be a shaky copyright violation given that the materials are being used in the manner they were intended (licensed) for in a PADI course; the instructor/shop could make some case that the copying was done to facilitate learning.

But, of course, it doesn't really matter because PADI can set it's own rules for conduct, something I'm sure you are 100% aware of as an instructor. If they say "no copying" and you are under any sort of contractual agreement with them, you have to follow the rules or it's a breach of contract.

 

[Don Wray]

In PADI's case, if you are under license to use the materials, it must be part of a larger "franchise" type arrangement?

Instructors are independents, not franchise holders.

Where the instructor pays PADI a portion of the student's course fees?

None of the students "course" fees go to PADI; the materials are purchased from PADI, and a certification fee for the card. The course fees go to the Instructor or the shop in full.

And with the materials, only licensed PADI shops can buy the books directly from PADI, and then the shop sells them to the students at a mark up?

No, any Instructor in teaching status can order materials directly from PADI. The amount charged to the Instructor is dependent on the Instructors buying "tier" level. The more you buy, the less you pay. Yes, there is usually a mark up on the materials.

Is that sort of how it goes?

see above, common misconception that PADI is getting more from the courses than they are. PADI gets as stated above, plus Instructor, Assistant Instructor and Divemaster annual renewal fees, professional application fees from new Instructors, AIs and DMs. If insurance is purchased through V&B, PADI gets $25 from each policy.

That would kind of make sense, and there's built in motivation for the instructor to sell individual copies to all students.

Not the Instructor's decision, required by standards.

I still think that photocopying a few pages of the book would be a shaky copyright violation given that the materials are being used in the manner they were intended (licensed) for in a PADI course; the instructor/shop could make some case that the copying was done to facilitate learning.

From the Instructor manual under FAQ's: (paraphrased)

A question asked: Can an instructor photocopy or reproduce (electronically or
by other means) the blank Knowledge Reviews from any PADI
Manual?
Answer essentially given No. This is a copyright infringement. It goes on to say what can be copied from the appendix of the various manuals, and that knowledge reviews are not to be copied or reproduced.

Hope this helps, Best regards