Revised PADI DM vs NAUI DM

[randytay]

This is not a thread to start war or flame. I am asking because I am in a crossroad and this question is directed to instructors and above who is familiar with both NAUI and revised PADI DM standards.

Due to the rating, progression of both system as well as requirements, ww know the NAUI DM is/was demanding than the PADI counterpart. Due to my current crossroads (a big thank you to all those who took the time to answer my questions in private), I am really looking to either continue with NAUI MSD or dive into the PADI DM, no pun intended.

Now that PADI has revised the requirements, how does it stack up against the NAUI counterpart? This information will be instrumental in my decision. Thank you in advance.

 

[knotical]

Can't help you with the NAUI half, and don't know all the changes, but according to a recent email from PADI:
- they've added a search scenario and a deep scenario. Don't know how the DM search scenario will differ from that in the Rescue course.
- prerequisite is now 40 logged dives
- you can now do knowledge development online.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It still does not compare. Naui dm is equivalent more or less to padi assistant instructor. Naui dm's can teach classroom and conduct pool sessions while under supervision. Some sessions do not require supervision. My crossover from padi was the eye opener for me. My first task was to write and deliver the first and second classroom lectures. Give them to the instructor and then deliver them to actual students. Like the system I teach under naui expects you to learn to teach by teaching. There is also much more emphasis on dive theory and skills. Pushing con ed is not a primary consideration. Nor is marketing. My padi dm class was 75% selling and 25% actual diving stuff. It was all about getting students to think about their next class. The naui crossover was just the opposite. The focus was on getting them competent before even considering further training.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

There is also much more emphasis on dive theory and skills. Pushing con ed is not a primary consideration. Nor is marketing. My padi dm class was 75% selling and 25% actual diving stuff. It was all about getting students to think about their next class.

Once again, Jim's comments about his previous life in PADI have caused me to review my PADI training.

My PADI DM manual is a Rev. 9/99, Ver. 2.1 and I took the class in spring '01.

In the Introduction, on page viii, there are a number of study materials mentioned; "PADI Divemaster Video, Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving, Diving Knowledge Workbook, Business of Diving, PADI Specialty Diver videos, Open Water Diver CD-ROM..."

So including the DM manual, the marketing seems like the less than 15% of the class that I remember.

Continuing through the DM manual, on page 4 one of the 10 "attributes" bullets in role modeling is "an understanding of the business needs of the dive operation and the ability to support them." One of the 5 no-no's is "Failure to perform as a team player and failure to support the dive operations business needs."

On page 7 is a real biggie in my mind - Unethical and unprofessional behavior in your role as a dive leader not only makes you look bad, but reflects poorly on your fellow PADI Members. Likewise disparaging remarks about PADI or PADI competitors don't reflect favorably."

On page 82 is the first real sales training; the yellow 2/3rds page box on "Dive Today." A little coaching on the terms PADI would prefer DM's use around potential new divers.

Page 144 is the start of the "Marketing" section; 5 and a half pages directed at marketing the 5 programs/activities DM's are qualified to conduct/lead.

Chapter 8 is "The Business of Diving" - 6 pages.

Not counting the Apendix, there are 185 pages in my PADI DM manual and 12 of those pages deal with marketing/sales (6.5%)

Of course I did a 6 day DM at a PADI Instructor Factory; there was only time for the "important" DM material!

 

[scadreau]

I recently went through the PADI DM and no marketing etc was discussed in class aside from the couple knowledge review questions.

We have focused almost solely on teaching and dive theory. The two instructors I work with have me do skills demo and work with students having problems. I am learning to teach and learning to deal with students in a calm reassuring manner that makes a big difference in OW classes.

I think that the new changes with PADI DM course are good. DMC's need time with students. Following that, the DM's should be required more dives and sessions with students to be eligible for instructor ratings.

Someone mentioned a while ago in another thread that since there is no independent verification of the skills, "buddies" of instructors are getting their DM without getting the knowledge and skills required. This is definitely something PADI (and any agency that doesn't do it) should change. At the "Pro" level, you reflect the shop, the agency and diving in general.

 

[Kingpatzer]

My PADI DM class was run by our CD with the assistance of several different instructors giving us one-on-one training in almost every aspect of our training. Our CD has 40 years of diving experience starting with being a Navy diver, moving on to commercial diving, and instructing in 3 agencies before settling on PADI. Our course was equally split between classroom and pool sessions in terms of class time. In the classroom, the vast, vast majority of time was spent on the scientific aspects of diving with a great deal of material coming from supplemental sources.

In the pool the focus was evenly split between perfecting our skills and helping students. Helping students was both a focus of finding multiple ways to demonstrate and explain skills. In both pool and classroom we practiced how to speak with students in ways that demonstrated our empathy with their stress levels while showing them we had the skills and confidence to see them through their training.

For the entire duration of the course we were highly encouraged to assist in real classes, and given every opportunity to do so from day one.

Yes there were parts of the course that reflect the reality that diving is a business and that DMs can easily find themselves in positions where helping divers make purchasing decisions around both equipment continuing eduction is part of their role. One thing that stands out in my mind is that the material actually explicitly discourages any time of hard-sell tactics and emphasized the need to continually sell diving while at the same time keeping the needs, budget and interest of the diver in mind. It reflected the reality that stores need sales and divers need solid, factual information to allow them to make informed decisions.

This was under the old program. I expect the new program to be even better.

Once again it comes down to the instructor. The PADI program standards are sufficient to make a great course. The NAUI standards are sufficient to do the same. And in the hands of instructors who aren't interested in working hard and taking their time both can be courses of dubious value.

 

[bracko]

Pushing con ed is not a primary consideration. Nor is marketing. My padi dm class was 75% selling and 25% actual diving stuff. It was all about getting students to think about their next class. The naui crossover was just the opposite. The focus was on getting them competent before even considering further training.

I've just completed the DM course with a PADI school and I'm not sure what you're on about.

about the extent of our "commerical training" was the chapter we were required to complete and a 5 minute discussion between the 3 students and the instructor over the reality of PADI, PADI bashing (which aside from the book's opinion makes you look like an idiot for doing it, since you are.... a PADI DM)

at the end of the day it's the person more tha the training that will result a good quality professional diver.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I was only relating my own experience. The shop I took mine with had a very heavy emphasis on selling and promoting courses immediately after OW. IF I was showing good trim and a student asked how it was possible for them to do that the expected answer was to take the PPB course for example. And I am not and have not been for 3 years a PADI DM. Relating my actual experience is not bashing. It was what it was.

 

[DCBC]

...Now that PADI has revised the requirements, how does it stack up against the NAUI counterpart? This information will be instrumental in my decision. Thank you in advance.

As I decided to let my PADI Instructor rating expire some time back, I'll leave it to a current PADI Instructor to comment on PADI's DM standards. I can however comment on NAUI's. The following is a synopsis from the NAUI Standards and Policies Manual.

Qualifications of Graduates
* Active Status NAUI DM qualified to organize and conduct dives for certified divers
* Qualified to assist Active Status Instructors in diving courses
* Qualified to enter a NAUI Instructor Training Course (ITC) <NAUI Instructor Prep program and AI certification recommended>

Diver Certification Prerequisites
* NAUI Master SCUBA Diver and NAUI SCUBA Rescue Diver (written exam with a minimum of 75% on both)
*Minimum 60 logged dives varied in environment, depth and activity
* AI waterskills assessment (if not already AI certified).
This includes Swimming - 25 yard UW swim w/o push-off, 450 yards less than 10 mins + 25 yards resting stroke, swimming transfer of another individual 50 yards unassisted, 20 min survival swimming
Skin Diving - Snorkel swim 900 yards less than 18 minutes, Doff and Don
SCUBA Skills - Assessment in confined and OW (including diver rescue of submerged non-breathing victim in OW).

Course Hours
Minimum 20 Hours Academic, 10 Hours Water
Diving/Divemastering 10 OW Dives

Skills
* Skin Dive: Diver Rescue
*SCUBA:
-Distance Swim 880 yards
-SCUBA Skills assessment
-Buddy Breathe
-Emergency Ascent in OW
-Night Dive
-Search, Rescue and Transport of an UW Accident
-Pre-Dive Briefing assessment
-Conduct beach dive for divers (evaluated)
-Conduct boat dive for divers (evaluated)
-Conduct night/limited vis dive for divers (evaluated)

Academic
-NAUI Orientation
-DM Duties
-DM Legal Responsibilities
-Shore Diving
-Emergency Procedures
-Boat Diving
-Night/Limited vis Diving
-OW Rescue
-Deep and Decompression Diving
-UW Environment
-Equipment
-Exam

NAUI 4728

 

[BoltSnap]

One point to take into consideration is that in the PADI religion the AI is higher than the DM. In the NAUI religion the DM is higher than the AI and is closer to the Instructor rating. In NAUI the DM can do all of what the AI can do plus more.