ROPE - I have not heard of this snorkeling problem

[The Chairman]

SSDD... If you do too much, you're gonna pay for it. Everyone tries to get the most out of their vacation. I've heard of divers trying to squeeze in 4,000 dives in a week. Why? They have equated the number of dives with how much fun they're having. It's the "I dove more than you, so I had more fun!" mentality. Personally, I don't dive for volume, but for quality and to zen. I'm not trying to set records for depth, for duration, for quantity, for... pick your superlative. If you do, you're setting yourself up for failure, and quite possibly not having a lot of fun. You might even be heading for an injury or even death.

Does she have a valid claim? I don't think so. It's not that big of a secret. It's like the family that let their child play next to a lake in Central Florida. They wanted to blame Florida for the gator that killed their child. When that didn't work, they leveled the charges at Disney and so forth. Gators in Florida waters is not a big secret. Letting your child or puppy close to water, especially in the evening hours, is asking for a tragedy. If there's any water, there's probably a gator close by in Florida.

Know your limits.

I keep posting this over and over, but diving and even life is a study in knowing your limits and then honoring them. It's not just time/depth/gas, but also fitness, conditions, and more. Know your limits. Stay within them. If you don't know your limits, then it behooves you to figure them out slowly. There's simply nothing down there worth dying for.

 

[JuLe]

If you see a typical new snorkeler in the water, you will see a vast difference between that beginning snorkeler and an experienced snorkeler. Many years ago some people came to our shop and purchased snorkels. They paid for a snorkel lesson in our pool, and I got the job. I was stunned by their incompetence at the start. I quickly saw I would have to take the tiniest of baby steps to get them ready to snorkel in the open water.

I agree. I teach snorkeling and finswimming for our diveclub. Mostly for kids, but some adults also. It is very easy to tell the difference between someone who has plenty of experience and someone who is just starting. So yes, I would also say that "experienced snorkler" is a valid term. Just like any other similar term, it is not very definitive, more a matter of opinion of what denotes "experienced" That said, there IS also a snorkel diver certificate issued by CMAS if one is interested in showing ones skills..

I really find it sad that when ever something goes wrong and an accident happens, a lawsuit is filed. Yes, incidents need to be investigated and obviously any foul play or even neglience must be punished, but there are also many incidents that should not be tried to be blamed on someone else. Unfortunately sometimes people die by accident and there really is no blame to be placed on anyone.

 

[boulderjohn]

I really find it sad that when ever something goes wrong and an accident happens, a lawsuit is filed. Yes, incidents need to be investigated and obviously any foul play or even neglience must be punished, but there are also many incidents that should not be tried to be blamed on someone else. Unfortunately sometimes people die by accident and there really is no blame to be placed on anyone.

I agree with this.

It looks to me as if the guy suffered a sudden onset of pulmonary edema, and there is no way of knowing if the water had anything to do with it. If he was wearing a full faced mask, that could have been a factor if he could not get it off easily to breathe through his mouth.

What I hope does not happen is for a lawsuit to result in some sort of new rule that you can't snorkel for three days after arriving.

 

[Trilobite]

Sorry, but people don't file a lawsuit "every time" there is an accidental death--our courts would be hopelessly clogged with thousands more lawsuits if that were the case. The reason it may seem that way is simply because accidental deaths generally become newsworthy only when a lawsuit is filed. (Note also there were almost 200 snorkeling deaths in Hawaii over the past decade or so according to the study--this appears to be the first lawsuit filed over one--at least no others have been referenced.)

Would be interested to see the complaint filed in this suit and learn more of the facts, but certainly understand why one was filed. We would probably never have heard of this incident without the lawsuit, so it has already had a postive effect in informing me, and apparently many others here, of a risk I was not previously aware of.

Moreover, it seems Hawaii authorities might have been dragging their feet in warning about this--they commissioned a study that in 2022 recommended additional warnings, especially relating to snorkeling after air travel, but then did nothing. The study showed a MUCH greater incidence of deaths from snorkeling for non-residents (vs. residents) than any other aquatic activity (including swimming), which surely was a red flag. (Note that Egyptian authorities had already warned of using full-face snorkel masks in 2020 according to a previous scuba board thread (though we don't know if one was used in this case).) And the coroner didn't help by misleadingly describing the cause of death as "drowning."

 

[Thunder Struck]

Judging by the photo of the man in the article I’d wager there were complications from obesity that ultimately compounded to result in his unfortunate demise. Now then, maybe he had no underlying health issues, but given his age and size, odds are there were issues. Also, looking at her size, I’m inclined to believe there’s dietary related issues.
She mentioned sitting around and drinking Mai Tais as an alternative. Not being teetotalers and on a tropical vacation, I’m curious what his BAC was at the time of death. First thing alcohol impairs is judgement, so a simple problem could easily be compounded into a much more stressful event.
Guess we’ll just have to wait for what health related information is brought up in trial.

 

[johndiver999]

So now we assume he was drunk but the coroner investigation just forget to check? Lol.

 

[SlugLife]

IMO, this should be an immediate case dismissed, and looks like someone trying to turn a tragedy into a money-grab.

 

[Thunder Struck]

So now we assume he was drunk but the coroner investigation just forget to check? Lol.

Nope. Just looking for more details. But for some context: in my locale many adult drownings at the lake involve alcohol.

 

[miked]

When I first saw the article about the gentleman's dying, and before more details came out, I thought of “dry drowning".
I had not heard of ROPE. Could someone please clarify, or direct me to a source, so I can learn what the difference is.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Outbound]

Sorry, but people don't file a lawsuit "every time" there is an accidental death--our courts would be hopelessly clogged with thousands more lawsuits if that were the case. The reason it may seem that way is simply because accidental deaths generally become newsworthy only when a lawsuit is filed. (Note also there were almost 200 snorkeling deaths in Hawaii over the past decade or so according to the study--this appears to be the first lawsuit filed over one--at least no others have been referenced.)

Would be interested to see the complaint filed in this suit and learn more of the facts, but certainly understand why one was filed. We would probably never have heard of this incident without the lawsuit, so it has already had a postive effect in informing me, and apparently many others here, of a risk I was not previously aware of.

Moreover, it seems Hawaii authorities might have been dragging their feet in warning about this--they commissioned a study that in 2022 recommended additional warnings, especially relating to snorkeling after air travel, but then did nothing. The study showed a MUCH greater incidence of deaths from snorkeling for non-residents (vs. residents) than any other aquatic activity (including swimming), which surely was a red flag. (Note that Egyptian authorities had already warned of using full-face snorkel masks in 2020 according to a previous scuba board thread (though we don't know if one was used in this case).) And the coroner didn't help by misleadingly describing the cause of death as "drowning."

Only suits that go to court can clog the court system. A great number of suits are filed simply to see if a settlement of some sort can be extracted. Not saying that is what is going on with this specific case, but it is a real issue.

Also, when someone dies in the water and it cannot be easily determined to be caused by something else, it is labeled a death by drowning. It is not done to be purposely misleading.