Scuba death at Rye Back beach

[iamrushman]

sorry to hear such sad news...

 

[bada3003]

Condolences to his friends and family.....if in fact he did jump in with his air turned off that's a horrible mistake, but I will never understand how someone dies that way....how can someone be so negatively buoyant as to not be able to swim their rig up ,I cant imagine that ever being the case with me.

Indeed, very sad.

As to negative buoyancy, I agree it should not be the case where one can't swim to the surface. But it's not an uncommon problem, especially related to OW training. Without picking on any particular cert agency, my own experience, and observing some others, has been that overweighting to keep a diver down is not uncommon. It's understandable since an instructor with his/her DMs may have a group of scuba trainees with wide ranging dispositions (e.g., dads with kids, folks uncomfortable in the water) and one of their primary goals is to get the diverse group through the training process without causing a major incident. It's my impression that rarely do get OW trainees refused certs because their buoyancy control or trim was not up to par. As long as there is an inherent conflict of interest between cert agencies as commercial enterprises and the need to train some folks much longer than others -- or disqualify them -- an OW cert just means that.

This is not to say that overweighting played a critical role in the diver's death. But pre-dive drills and safety checks which are heavily emphasized in cavern/cave training are not given the same urgency in OW training. Every diver is left to learn their significance through experience. I too have jumped in the water with my air turned off. The inflator hose not connected. Overweighted when trying a new drysuit, sinking to the bottom of the pool. They say it's cumulative effects that eventually may kill you. In my case, other factors were in my favor that allowed the mishaps to be corrected without escalating further. I've been following my own set of pre-dive procedures which, so far, have served me well. And what-if practices. But I continually have to guard against complacency.

 

[WeldonDowd]

Can anyone find out how much weight he had on him and how he was wearing it?

 

[PfcAJ]

Indeed, very sad.

As to negative buoyancy, I agree it should not be the case where one can't swim to the surface. But it's not an uncommon problem, especially related to OW training. Without picking on any particular cert agency, my own experience, and observing some others, has been that overweighting to keep a diver down is not uncommon. It's understandable since an instructor with his/her DMs may have a group of scuba trainees with wide ranging dispositions (e.g., dads with kids, folks uncomfortable in the water) and one of their primary goals is to get the diverse group through the training process without causing a major incident. It's my impression that rarely do get OW trainees refused certs because their buoyancy control or trim was not up to par. As long as there is an inherent conflict of interest between cert agencies as commercial enterprises and the need to train some folks much longer than others -- or disqualify them -- an OW cert just means that.

This is not to say that overweighting played a critical role in the diver's death. But pre-dive drills and safety checks which are heavily emphasized in cavern/cave training are not given the same urgency in OW training. Every diver is left to learn their significance through experience. I too have jumped in the water with my air turned off. The inflator hose not connected. Overweighted when trying a new drysuit, sinking to the bottom of the pool. They say it's cumulative effects that eventually may kill you. In my case, other factors were in my favor that allowed the mishaps to be corrected without escalating further. I've been following my own set of pre-dive procedures which, so far, have served me well. And what-if practices. But I continually have to guard against complacency.

No. Its not 'understandable'. Its a symptom of instructors who aren't in control, can't teach, and/or are accepting students who are not ready for scuba.

Piling on weight is a lazy man's way to get students to stay put. Teaching them how to dive is a lot harder.

 

[Jan Kruger]

Another option might be that this person was not trained at all...Friends of mine rented scuba gear once or twice before and dove in one of the local dams notorious for no viz and dark muddy water. They dove together and tried to help each other. They had no clue about any rules, training ,procedures or any sort of safety! They dove down to 3-5 meters in pitch black water! So I think that this sad event might be due to either a panic situation or no training at all.

 

[Tortuga68]

No, it would seem that this sad event was due to not ensuring his tank valve was turned on before the dive. It's that simple, no boat crew or buddy to blame here. Turn it on, breathe from it a a few times, check your SPG - pretty simple. All the other stuff about positive entry, ditching weights, swimming up and/or ditching your rig is only a factor if you don't do that simple pre-dive check which everyone shoudl be doing every dive, especially if you are diving solo. Sorry to say it but Darwin Award. What a shame.

 

[Namreg 58]

No, it would seem that this sad event was due to not ensuring his tank valve was turned on before the dive. It's that simple, no boat crew or buddy to blame here. Turn it on, breathe from it a a few times, check your SPG - pretty simple. All the other stuff about positive entry, ditching weights, swimming up and/or ditching your rig is only a factor if you don't do that simple pre-dive check which everyone shoudl be doing every dive, especially if you are diving solo. Sorry to say it but Darwin Award. What a shame.

I have forgotten to put on my fins on one occasion and my weight harness on numerous occasions (usually happens when helping others gear up) but I have never forgotten to breathe from my reg several times whilst checking my SPG before falling overboard............it's a no brainer.

 

[bada3003]

Very good points. I certainly can't reach the valves on surface (not meant to), but more importantly, it's difficult for me even under water. I did yoga some years back for a couple of years to increase agility (not for scuba, my golf swing was getting shorter and shorter with age) but there were limitations. One of the reasons I switched to sidemount.

...
A question for all divers? How many divers can reach their tank valve to be able turn their air off and on (with BCD on) while under the water?
How many have tried it?

With a lot of luck and an ability to not be able to panic (and perhaps a shallow bottom) one might just be able to turn their air on in this situation. I know I can with twins, but it is not easy for me. Also it would appear the diver did not drop his weight belt allowing him to swim to the surface. All things we should practice to a "regular" basis.

---------- Post added March 20th, 2014 at 03:09 PM ----------

There is nothing wrong in what you say, but it also indicates a lack of wisdom. I'm taking a path to become full cave certified (slowly), and I'm choosing instructors who have been cave divers for at least 25+ years. The reason is: yes, I'm learning new techniques but really, the most valuable lessons conveyed are their real life experiences. Basically, all the ways one can manage to screw up and end up in dire straits. And some of it they build into training within the broad framework of what cert agencies allow. A number of experienced cave divers perished by making simple mistakes. The best of them make simple mistakes. That's why the guy/gal how says "I will never ..." is more likely to end up in precarious situations that ones who practice for such mistakes. By doing what-ifs and building in redundancies to recover. Such as not overweighting, etc.

No, it would seem that this sad event was due to not ensuring his tank valve was turned on before the dive. It's that simple, no boat crew or buddy to blame here. Turn it on, breathe from it a a few times, check your SPG - pretty simple. All the other stuff about positive entry, ditching weights, swimming up and/or ditching your rig is only a factor if you don't do that simple pre-dive check which everyone shoudl be doing every dive, especially if you are diving solo. Sorry to say it but Darwin Award. What a shame.

 

[blatter]

The actual cause of this sad death is unlikely to be identified before the inquiry is completed.

Assuming air was turned off and diver was over weight and that these were the causes, then it should not have happened.

Checking reg function before donning gear, and that air is turned on by taking a few deep breaths while looking at the pressure guage just before entering water should be a basic procedure for all divers.

But failure to do this, and being over weight should still not have killed this diver. In my view it should be possible for any diver (even technical divers) to remove/ditch gear in a short enough space of time to prevent drowning even if they are plummetting to the bottom with no breathable gas. If this is difficult then the diver should rethink gear configuration and procedures. It should be an easy decision: you're drowning and want to get back to the surface - why not spend the last 20 or 30 seconds of conciousness ditching gear so that you can swim or float back to the surface and survive? Reluctance to lose gear or panic, or lack of training are possible complications. But there is no good reason why anyone should drown after jumping into a couple of metres of water whatever the state of their equipment.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

No, it would seem that this sad event was due to not ensuring his tank valve was turned on before the dive. It's that simple, no boat crew or buddy to blame here. Turn it on, breathe from it a a few times, check your SPG - pretty simple. All the other stuff about positive entry, ditching weights, swimming up and/or ditching your rig is only a factor if you don't do that simple pre-dive check which everyone shoudl be doing every dive, especially if you are diving solo. Sorry to say it but Darwin Award. What a shame.

In this case there was no boat crew and certainly nobody else to blame. I disagree that this is always the case. I remember a dive where I geared up, checked my gear, breathed off my reg and saw one of the boat crew reach to check my tank. I told him my air was already on so to leave it. Unfortunately he managed to turn my air off then back on a 1/4 turn without me catching him at it. Must have been when I had my back to him waiting for the diver ahead of me to clear so I could splash. Breathed ok when I did the stride in then, I removed the reg while I waited for the rest to splash. Of course at 1/4 on it re-pressurized enough for me to get a couple normal breaths while I descended then got real hard to breath! Not impressed!

I have forgotten to put on my fins on one occasion and my weight harness on numerous occasions (usually happens when helping others gear up) but I have never forgotten to breathe from my reg several times whilst checking my SPG before falling overboard............it's a no brainer.

See above.. not always a guarantee. You gotta have eyes in the back of your head!