Scuba deaths/incidents per certifying agency

[ccardvol]

Most diver deaths are human error,plain and simple.

I have no doubt that that is true. And I don't want to be one of those "human error" statistics, so, which agency is most likely to train me in such a way as to not be a danger to myself or others underwater?

 

[Tavi]

NAUI requires 4 specialty dives for the AOW. I require 6 to 7 when I teach it. I don't teach to bare minimums, and I choose to make BETTER DIVERS not sell cards. My advanced course is not easy, I cover such things as lift bag use and deployment, reel work, finning techniques, buoyancy drills, and much much more. I have had students compare it to a mini boot camp. You also get the Night dive, deep dive, navigation and underwater search and rescue, surface positional triangulation etc...

You want a complete advanced class, PM me.

Cheers

Mike

check your standards mike.

A minimum of 6 dives is required by NAUI,
3 required dives are Navigation, Night/ Low vis, and Deep.
the other 3 can be chosen from a list of elective dives

 

[stargazer61]

Even statistics per dive done would not really be a fair comparison. One would expect a single diver that did 200 dives to have a different chance of a fatality than 40 divers that did 5 dives. The difference would be what he learned through experience offset against the potentially more risky type of diving that he chose to do as he gained experience.

What you need is a sound reason for prefferring one agency over another. Then you can massage the stats to prove that you made the right choice

 

[Mike Edmonston]

check your standards mike.

A minimum of 6 dives is required by NAUI,
3 required dives are Navigation, Night/ Low vis, and Deep.
the other 3 can be chosen from a list of elective dives

Total BRAIN FART on my part, I was looking at the "4 dives per day" max dives standard.

Hands were typing faster than brain was thinking. I run my AOW course on 2 weekends. So we usually end up with 7 to 8 dives. Those are the open water dives, as I also run 3 or 4 dives in the lake for line skills etc...

Thanks for correcting me Tavi.

Cheers

Mike

 

[ccardvol]

Even statistics per dive done would not really be a fair comparison. One would expect a single diver that did 200 dives to have a different chance of a fatality than 40 divers that did 5 dives. The difference would be what he learned through experience offset against the potentially more risky type of diving that he chose to do as he gained experience.

What you need is a sound reason for prefferring one agency over another. Then you can massage the stats to prove that you made the right choice

I guess so.

 

[ccardvol]

hmmmm... no, not that i have seen

of course, the agencies aren't going to be too crazy about compiling and publishing this type of info

Yeah I wouldn't think they would like to but the fact that no one keeps that type of statistic is troubling.

 

[ccardvol]

an absolute number means nothing, and even an percentage of students, or of the total of certified divers by agency X means little..
In order to derive any meanful information from that data (if available) you'd have to equalize for a variety of variables such as geographical distribution, highest obtainable level, particular legacy focus etc. It would be a statistical nightmare to get any meaning out of raw numbers.
For example, it makes sense that more Hondas than Ferraris get stolen simply because many more any made and sold every year...

Big $12 words. Someone else broke it down much better. And besides, it's not Hondas and Ferraris. It's Honda's and Toyota's. And not even that, it's the driving schools that help someone attain a license.

 

[GulfDiver77]

I have no doubt that that is true. And I don't want to be one of those "human error" statistics, so, which agency is most likely to train me in such a way as to not be a danger to myself or others underwater?

As I stated before the instructor is the one that makes a difference in how and how much you are taught agencies are agencies most major agencies have similiar teaching materials. That is why most accept other agency cards. For example I have my OW through SSI but I have my Nitrox through PADI and I am taking my AOW through PADI. Because that is what agency my LDS uses.

 

[Adobo]

I'm trying to decide which agencies' AOW will give me the most comprehensive, in depth training. I went through the PADI OW, since then, being around a few dives shops and divers, it seems to me that the PADI course, though sufficient to get me underwater,was a bit lax. Scuba is a great activity, one that I hope to enjoy for many years. I don't want to be a danger to myself or just as importantly, to anyone else, so I want the training that will best prepare me.

It seemed like a totally fair question to me, a safety comparison between PADI/SSI/NAUI. But the "answer" that seems to be overriding response (I asked the same question in the Accidents/Incidents Thread) is "that's a non-question because the answer wouldn't blah blah blah blah". Of course it's a sensible, valid question. It seems to me like a lot of Instructors don't want that information known for some reason.

Nobody is saying that the question is invalid. The thing of it is, and please do not take this the wrong way, is that I think what you are truly after and the way you are phrasing the question are not really the same.

At any rate, it seems that your experience was much like what I and many other divers have come across. The type of training I personally received was quite a bit less than what I felt I required to be a "proficient" diver. I did not feel like I knew what I didn't know and I did not feel like I knew how become better with all of the relevant skills.

If you look at the course description of advanced open water classes, regardless of agency, the question becomes, are they teaching you what you need to know so that you can execute dives in as safe a manner as possible? The syllabuses for the AOW classes in my area allowed me to pick 4 specialties (dry suit, underwater navigation, boat diving, night diving, etc.). I could not figure for the life of me how these classes were gonna make me a better diver.

I would say that if you go down the advanced open water route in search of training that will bring your skills and knowledge to the next level, the best thing to do is to focus on the instructor rather than the agency. Ask them questions such as:
- do you teach skills kneeling on the bottom or in mid-water (the place a diver is most likely to need to deploy the skill)?
- how do you teach gas planning? (if they say "be back on the boat with 500psi", run away screaming)
- how do you teach weight checks? (if they do not have you check if you are properly weighted both with a full tank and with an almost empty tank, run away screaming)

Good instructors from PADI will give you good answers. Just like good instructors from NAUI and SSI. Bad instructors from any will essentially teach you underwater basket weaving, at best.

Another direction you should investigate is GUE's Fundamentals class. There are many class reports posted in the DIR forum that talks about that class. And in my opinion, it is the best class any new diver can take (it will open your eyes).

 

[fisherdvm]

Don't make fun of underwater basket weaving, here is a description from my LDS:



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