Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[brnt999]

I do not believe that the decision to swim under water to the exit on only 50 bars was the issue here at all. It was choosing to do the underwater swim solo, with all the other ongoing issues that led to the eventual outcome.

50 bars or no, overweighted or no, inaccurate SPG or no, inadequate wing or no, inexperienced in a dry suit or no, ... in the end it was the decision to not rejoin the rest of the team for that last short swim to the exit that allowed whatever other issues there may have been to become an incident that could not be resolved in time.

I am a new diver with 25 dives over a 2 month period last winter, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I distinctly remember on 2 of my dives having to wait while the dive master went back to try to find a diver from the group who was taking pictures and became seperated. One was a drift dive in Cozumel, the other was a drift dive in Isla Mugera. The primary dive plan on a drift dive is to stay together as a group. The dive operators dont want people popping up all over the ocean, they need to keep track of everyone. To my mind the divers with the cameras were very self centered--they were doing their own thing and who cares about the group. I do not see how anyone intent on taking pictures can be a good dive buddy. They are solo divers. There should be no ambiguity on a dive. If your solo diving taking pictures fine--just lay it on the table at the beginning of the dive. If someone is going to tag along with you watching out for you, fine--lay it on the table so everyone knows. If your part of a group who are unfamiliar with a dive site and your following a dive master then you should put your camera down and follow the group. Your either group diving or solo diving--just lay it on the table at the beginning so there is no ambiguity.

 

[SeaHorse81]

I still hate people thinking this is a buddy thing. I guess you are right in some sense but I like to dive solo and It seems Marcia did to.

I am solo certified and have done some solo diving as well, which I have always thoroughly enjoyed. The fact remains that any number of issues that will kill you if you are alone can be easily survivable in the close company of a buddy, period.

There were apparently a shocking number of factors that increased Marcia's risk. Close proximity to quality buddies would likely have resulted in Marcia surviving the trip despite layers of questionable decision-making and gear choice.

Diving alone does not kill you. Diving is an unnatural act in an unnatural environment (for us), so we have dramatically less room for error there than we have in any other activity. Diving alone shaves off a huge amount of whatever safety margin we still have. Diving alone eliminates a really big second chance when things go wrong.

I wish Marcia was still here to be teaching us in person. The next best thing is to learn from how she died, and I think a lot of that is happening on this thread. I know I personally will be making some changes as a result of this. It's little consolation but it's what we can do.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I am a new diver with 25 dives over a 2 month period last winter, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I distinctly remember on 2 of my dives having to wait while the dive master went back to try to find a diver from the group who was taking pictures and became seperated. One was a drift dive in Cozumel, the other was a drift dive in Isla Mugera. The primary dive plan on a drift dive is to stay together as a group. The dive operators dont want people popping up all over the ocean, they need to keep track of everyone. To my mind the divers with the cameras were very self centered--they were doing their own thing and who cares about the group. I do not see how anyone intent on taking pictures can be a good dive buddy. They are solo divers. There should be no ambiguity on a dive. If your solo diving taking pictures fine--just lay it on the table at the beginning of the dive. If someone is going to tag along with you watching out for you, fine--lay it on the table so everyone knows. If your part of a group who are unfamiliar with a dive site and your following a dive master then you should put your camera down and follow the group. Your either group diving or solo diving--just lay it on the table at the beginning so there is no ambiguity.

... there are way more choices available ... both for the photographer diver and their buddy. Just because someone doesn't choose to apply good technique to diving with a camera ... or buddying with someone who does ... doesn't mean those techniques don't exist, or that they can't be applied properly. Like most things diving it boils down to knowing what the techniques are, and choosing to use them.

NWGratefulDiver.com

I just came back from a trip to Indonesia where I was diving in a group of four with one or two dive guides. At no time during two weeks worth of diving ... sometimes in heavy current or low visibility ... did any of us lose contact with the others. And we were ALL carrying and making heavy use of cameras. It's not rocket surgery ... it's a matter of deciding what's important, and adopting techniques that allow you to both take pictures and maintain contact with your dive buddies. Poor technique and lack of commitment to the other divers doesn't mean that being both a photographer and a good dive buddy can't be done ... it means the diver chose not to do it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Denis Sydney]

. I do not see how anyone intent on taking pictures can be a good dive buddy. They are solo divers. There should be no ambiguity on a dive. If your solo diving taking pictures fine--just lay it on the table at the beginning of the dive.

I understand these comments from a new diver as many photographers can seem that way. I dive with a regular group and almost all of us (6/7) are photographers. We are very good with each other and know where we all are and are able to take photos and still keep together and near enough to be able to assist in an emergency without being on top of each other. Admitidly it is a bit of a skill but it is easily done IF YOU WANT IT TO.

A few days before, I led a dive (with Marcia) where 3 of us were to keep close so we could go looking for a weedy as well as because of the poor visability.

It was a hard dive both going back to check on Marcia as well as going looking for her as she had headed off somewhere else. This appears consistant with her last dive. If someone said to me where was her buddy I would have said "looking for her again"

There is a difference between a diver that just lags behind taking photos and one that does that AND flits off in different directions without regard to where your buddies are. That was my dive experience. My understanding is that her last dive was not a solo dive where others were also there.

I go back to my previous post where I said
- always stay close to you buddies - if something goes wrong you want them to be able to see you and respond quickly. It will also reduce the chance of getting seperated. (for the benefit of the comments on that post add -when you are buddy diving)

Marcia was a great person but placed herself at risk with her buddy practices. Whilst most of the time this was just annoying, with the circustances of her last dive, this was fatal.

When I dived with her she seemed to have good bouancy. I have never used a drysuit and had not appreciated the issues that have been raised here. I have learnt much but could not have offered suggestions on the day. I relied on her comments about her having done her drysuit course and knowing her equipment.

For me, i ALMOST did a deep dive with (first time) twin tanks and had not considered the balance issues. It could have been me with a similar issue. Fate saved me when this dive was cancelled. Time to do some test stuff with my twin 100's and 43lb lift BCD

I am so angry at Quero. I am sure she could have rented or borrowed the appropriate wing. Surely she must have noticed, in previous dives, that her wing was underperforming? Didn't somebody mention that she was overweighted? I'm just so mad at her for not doing what she knew was the right thing.
Just needed to get that off my chest. Thanks!

I didnt notice/realise she was overweighted. Her bouyancy seemed good. There are a number of us that are angry (part of the grieving process) for what she has done. The anger is for what she has done to herself, to her family (fabulous people that I met this week) to her buddies on the day (they too are fabulous people and very safe divers to be with)

It is not about the being overweighted or probably using the drysuit as bouyancy. These are learning issues but may have been the last straw. Maybe she panicked, focussed on the wrong issues such as saving her camera or pushing all her air into her BCD. It would not take long to use you last reserves on these issues and have no breath left. Along with these possibilities other issues (health items identified) and an unknown dive site, these should be a message that she should have kept close to her buddies.

RIP Marcia

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Close proximity to quality buddies would likely have resulted in Marcia surviving the trip despite layers of questionable decision-making and gear choice.

... but that's masking the problem, rather than fixing it. Questionable decision-making will eventually get you in trouble ... no matter who you dive with. It may endanger not just you, but your buddy or buddies as well. The issue that needs to be addressed isn't whether or not to dive alone, but how well prepared you are to do so. That preparation entails way more than a pony bottle ... even more important than the equipment, it involves your willingness to be honest with yourself about when it's time to pull the trigger and end the dive. When getting a picture becomes more important than making prudent choices about proper technique or equipment selection, then you're setting yourself up for failure.

I don't know if that's the case here ... but from the direction this conversation has taken it is the salient point to be made. It wasn't the choice to wander off alone that set her up for this accident ... it was all the sub-optimal choices she made prior to going off on her own. It's not uncommon for divers to think themselves more prepared to handle problems than they actually are ... ESPECIALLY when conditions are benign or when they have enough experience to be completely comfortable and self-confident in their ability to deal with issues. But that often leads to an attitude that doesn't take the environment, or the potential for cascading problems, seriously enough. Wes Skiles died for pretty much the same reason ... on a dive that most novices should've been able to handle.

Unless you can stand up to breathe, you HAVE to take the environment dive seriously ... failure to do so can kill you. THAT is the takeaway here ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[buddhasummer]

I am a new diver with 25 dives over a 2 month period last winter, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I distinctly remember on 2 of my dives having to wait while the dive master went back to try to find a diver from the group who was taking pictures and became seperated. One was a drift dive in Cozumel, the other was a drift dive in Isla Mugera. The primary dive plan on a drift dive is to stay together as a group. The dive operators dont want people popping up all over the ocean, they need to keep track of everyone. To my mind the divers with the cameras were very self centered--they were doing their own thing and who cares about the group. I do not see how anyone intent on taking pictures can be a good dive buddy. They are solo divers. There should be no ambiguity on a dive. If your solo diving taking pictures fine--just lay it on the table at the beginning of the dive. If someone is going to tag along with you watching out for you, fine--lay it on the table so everyone knows. If your part of a group who are unfamiliar with a dive site and your following a dive master then you should put your camera down and follow the group. Your either group diving or solo diving--just lay it on the table at the beginning so there is no ambiguity.

A discussion about this prior to a dive means it doesn't have to be a problem, it's not that black and white. If photographer buddy agreed to advise when they were about to stop to take photos no one need get separated. How well this would work in a large insta buddy group I don't know but see no reason why it shouldn't providing actual diving buddy pairs are allocated prior to a dive and requisite discussion had. Diving with your normal buddy this should be a non issue. For me and my photo taking buddy it is. For the record I do however prefer diving with non photo taking buddies the constant stopping and waiting irritates me.

 

[JamesK]

Poor gear selection for environment
Overweighting
Unfamiliar with gear
Task loading
It will be ok attitude.

That's it. No debate needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[DevonDiver]

I've not finished writing this article yet, so it isn't really ready for publishing, but I felt sharing it now would be pertinent:

The Dunning-Kruger Effect and Scuba Diver Over-Confidence

 

[Zippsy]

... but that's masking the problem, rather than fixing it. (Grateful Diver)

But you can't fix it if you don't survive it. Surviving a close encounter because a nearby buddy was able to assist can make the most stubborn of people rethink their ideas / systems / priorities / gear / etc. (I'm not saying that Marcia was stubborn)

 

[SeaHorse81]

... but that's masking the problem, rather than fixing it.

Completely agreed. My point is only that being with others increases your safety margin, not that it should be a substitute for doing things right in the first place.