Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

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Well,see, there's one getting taught properly! But, again, the you lead,I'll follow hand signal is a hand signal I'm well familiar with. Why is that?
Because there is a time when that is an appropriate dive plan.

I teach a distinctive specialty in dive planning, and it includes a section on the different formations that dive teams can use, when each is appropriate, and how to maintain good buddy contact with each. If you would like, I can send you that section so you can learn about it.
 
In diving, there are certain buddy protocols we were all taught. They are put in place for the safety of both divers. To my knowledge there is no number of logged dive requirements to then be able to take a course of solo diving. It is not recommended and in fact it is expressly forbidden. It goes against the rules.

Forbidden? Against the 'rules?' The so-called 'rules' are recommendations by agencies that have no legislative authority. There are some spheres in which a free-willed, free adult has a reasonable expectation of choice, liberty, and can decide for him/herself whether to adhere to generalized recommendations.

I believe the requirement for the solo courses available now is 100 dives.

Diving alone means there are some circumstances you could find yourself in for which you will not be able to survive. period. It does not mean you absolutely will survive with a buddy, but the chances are greatly increased if there is another person with you.

Diving 'period' means there are some etc... And maybe a team of 3 would have better odds of dealing with an emergency than 1? And may Rescue-trained people would have better odds than basic OW, so we ought to have a 'rule' you can't dive outside on instructor supervision until you're Rescue-certified?

However, the reason I say not staying with the group was the ultimate cause of her death in this instance is.....if she had stayed with the group and she had her buddy and they were experienced divers in 10feet of water, odds are they would have reacted to whatever her issue(s) was and saved her life. I think solo divers "know" that but they do not really "believe" it. Each time you do it you become more confident doing it. Then, there is that one time.....that one or many unforseen things happen, and you realize, maybe too late, it would have been a really good idea to have another person looking into your face mask.

Solo divers, like those who take the Rescue course, are more specifically trained to apply a trouble-shooting perspective to dive planning than the norm. for basic OW and AOW. We're taught to think it through, because there is no one else to give a second opinion or a helping hand. I'm more methodical pre-dive when soloing.

ScubaPink, you seem to think solo diving is unacceptably dangerous in terms of risk, but recreational scuba diving is unnecessary, and has some degree of inherent danger. There are people who regard even buddy diving the say you seem to regard solo diving. So, why is the risk level of one fine & dandy, but the other ill-advised?

Richard.
 
Thanks,Rob. I just find that shoulder to shoulder is far less stressful. That's the only point I was trying to make. The other point is that I think it is more common for GUE divers than divers trained by other agencies to dive single file.
That's the only point I was trying to make. Not sure why John is getting is hackles up over this.
 
TracyDr:

Following up your issue of the side-by-side vs. leader-follower model of buddy diving, it would be interesting to see well-done research from a dive charter boat op. where you get all the customers for the 2-tank boat trip to independently fill out a detailed questionnaire to get each diver's view of how they think the buddy system should work on the dives they're about to do.

Then compare them against the other boat customers, their regular dive buddies, and instabuddies.

I wonder how much agreement there would be?

Richard.
 
All this buddy posting. I got the crap kicked outa me for asking where her buddy was 50 pages ago now it's ok to ask? Where was her buddy?
 
I do not live my life telling people how to live their lives. In fact, I am very much opposed to it. I believe completely in life your life and do no harm and allow others to do the same. Solo diving IS against the rules. It DOES increase the risk. It is ill-advised and people do it. As far as diving itself being risky, it is. That is why you have to get certified before jumping in. (obviously) I do not begrudge anyone their right to solo dive if they so choose. The purpose of this forum is to learn from those that have gone before and what I see in this scenario is a buddy system failure. (again, from what I have read it was not on the part of the buddies) Anyone can, and obviously they do, dive solo. That is for them to decide. I only bring to light the advantages vs the disadvantages of having a buddy when diving. Obviously not all buddies are created equal either and, untill the SHTF you just really do not know. If you have the impression I am scolding solo divers, I am not.
 
To my knowledge there is no number of logged dive requirements to then be able to take a course of solo diving. It is not recommended and in fact it is expressly forbidden. It goes against the rules.

You are mistaken. There is, in fact, a solo diving course that's available through SDI. It's been available for at least a decade ... and a minimum dive requirement of 100 dives as a prerequisite for taking it. PADI has recently offered a "self-sufficient" course that is similar. And there are no "rules" ... scuba diving is, by its nature, a self-regulated activity. The "rules" apply only to what occurs in class. Once class is over, what you do is determined strictly by your own decisions.

If you are in a buddy team and you have the expectation that your buddy, after discussion, is going to be a buddy in the sense of how we were taught, only to find out under water they are not, then you should bring it up and work to resolve it to both parties satisfactions and if it isn't resolved you should look for another buddy.
Yes ...

At this point, some people choose to go it on their own.
Choosing to go solo because of poor buddy skills is a foolish reason to do so.

They do break the rules.
Once again, there are no "rules" against solo diving. It's purely a personal choice. There are some dive ops who will not allow you to dive off their boat, or their resort, while solo ... and that's a business decision. Plenty of dive ops allow it. Some don't even ask or expect you to have formal training in solo diving. Most solo divers probably don't, in fact ... although the prudent ones have sufficient training and experience to understand the risks and know how to mitigate them.


They feel confident in their skills and take additional precautions to minimize the risk of solo diving. However, it is a risk and it goes against the rules. Rules that were written to best ensure a safe dive. You can have a pony. It won't do you any good if you find yourself blacking out for some unforseen medical anomaly. In that instance, you cannot aid yourself and no amount of self-reliance will save you because you are no longer conscious.
There's way more to solo diving than packing a pony ... and way more that can go wrong than air related issues or medical anomalies. There are risks you can assess and prepare for, and some you can't. What matters is understanding what those risks are, and making your choices accordingly. Perhaps this will help you understand what I'm talking about ... NWGratefulDiver.com

However, if you had a buddy, who was doing as they were supposed to be doing, and they noticed your distress, they could make sure a reg stays in your mouth, get you to the surface and call for help as quickly as possible. Without a buddy in this scenario, you are sinking and breathing water. (most likely)
Are you rescue trained? Would you recognize a medical emergency? Do you even understand how to recognize the signs of building distress in another diver? Do you know how to get an unconscious diver to the surface? Or how to handle a diver on the verge of, or already in the throes of panic? Do you know how to perform CPR or administer oxygen to an unconscious diver?

When was the last time you practiced your emergency skills? Are you certain you'd be able to perform them without conscious thought, while dealing with a non-responsive (or worse yet, an over-responsive) diver and at a time when you're also under a lot of stress?

If the answer to any of those questions is no, then you're probably overestimating your value as a dive buddy in a real emergency. There's a huge difference between practicing something once in a class and being able to respond in a stressful moment underwater.

Diving alone means there are some circumstances you could find yourself in for which you will not be able to survive. period.
I understand well what diving alone means ... I've done more solo dives in the past three months than you've done dives in your lifetime, if your profile is accurate.

It does not mean you absolutely will survive with a buddy, but the chances are greatly increased if there is another person with you.
... it depends entirely on the buddy ... I've witnessed situations where buddy intervention actually made the situation worse.

No amount of experience or training can get you out of certain predicaments and that is all I am trying to say about this particular incident.
But that is NOT all you said. You stated in absolute terms that diving without a buddy is what killed her. It's an ignorant statement, because people way more knowledgeable than you can't say for certain what the cause of death was.

I am aware that she obviously had other things going on. That is the point. All we an do is speculate as there was no one there to witness and share what happened.
Which is also often the case when two poorly trained dive buddies dive together and get separated. Now they're effectively diving solo ... which neither one of them is either physically or mentally prepared for.

However, the reason I say not staying with the group was the ultimate cause of her death in this instance is.....if she had stayed with the group and she had her buddy and they were experienced divers in 10feet of water, odds are they would have reacted to whatever her issue(s) was and saved her life.
That's speculation.

I think solo divers "know" that but they do not really "believe" it. Each time you do it you become more confident doing it. Then, there is that one time.....that one or many unforseen things happen, and you realize, maybe too late, it would have been a really good idea to have another person looking into your face mask.
When you gain a little bit more experience you'll come to recognize that one of the fundamental tenets of being a good diver is learning how to recognize a building situation and take steps to mitigate the problem before it becomes an incident. It wasn't the lack of a dive buddy that led to this accident ... it was all the less than optimal decisions that occurred before she made the decision to separate from them. By the time she took that step she was already well down the incident pit that ultimately led to her death. Based on what's been said, there were plenty of things she could have done differently to have avoided that accident long before it ever happened.

I don't disagree that having a buddy there would probably have prevented her death. It's doubtful it would have prevented her from making those same decisions on subsequent dives ... which is where I'm coming from. You don't resolve the problem by relying on another diver ... you resolve it by learning how to recognize risks before they occur and make prudent decisions to avoid them or mitigate them long before they lead to a bad outcome. A dive buddy won't do that for you ... you have to do it for yourself.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Accident talk to possible errors in dive talk to different types of regs talk to back on subject to agency bashing. CAN WE PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC. This thread is 53 pages long. You could very easily take out 10 or so pages of completely off subject talk.
 
All this buddy posting. I got the crap kicked outa me for asking where her buddy was 50 pages ago now it's ok to ask? Where was her buddy?

My guess is her buddy was where the buddy thought they had agreed to dive, close to the other buddy pair. It takes two to be a buddy team. One buddy should not always have to be reigning in the other buddy, particularly when the other buddy is constantly straying from the plan.

I may get flak for this but I'll say it. If I have a buddy and our plan is to stick near another buddy team and I keep doing that but my buddy keeps wandering away, a few times after bringing them back to the group I may eventually quit chasing after them. They have shown me they aren't interested in being a buddy team. If they don't like it they have an option to stick with me and the original plan.

My recollection is after they surfaced Quero was encouraged to come closer to the group and declined. I'm not convinced it was her buddy's obligation to chase after her.
 
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