Scuba Lessons Jax expelled from PADI--students left in the lurch

[boulderjohn]

I haven't counted but quite a number of folks on here have stated that they received substandard training through PADI and didn't realize it until they became instructors or at least obtained advanced training. Furthermore, none has stated that their instructor was barred or corrected by PADI. That plus my own observations leads me to believe that PADI's quality assurance program is compromised, and it is only the most egregious violations that grab their attention.

I was one who did not receive adequate instruction in my OW class and did not realize it for years. PADI did not do anything about it because PADI did not know about it. I never told them.

PADI now has an extensive survey system in which students are asked about what happened in their classes. Not every student is queried (that would be nearly a million surveys a year), but quite a few are. I know all my tech students have been surveyed. I suspect that may be what tipped them off in this case.

 

[Rred]

I learned to dive in a university course, not PADI affiliated, so we had more class time and pool time than any "retail" course would have. And a damned fine instructor, an ex-Navy frogman, from the time when that's what they were called. So my perspective may be skewed versus a "commercial" certification.

But when I started diving, with a club affiliated with another college which had a program through their local YMCA and PADI (PADI instructor & program, YMCA facility for pool) two of the members both made the error of only turning on their valves 1/4 turn. Not backing them off--but only turning them on 1/4 turn. Each swore that was what they were taught, so my opinion of PADI went down two notches. Then a year later a PADI instructor was giving a navigation talk to that same club and he kept talking about the "Loober line" on the compass. Hmmm....It ain't "loober" its "lubber" rhymes with "landlubber". An instructor who doesn't know compass parts...and expects that certified divers haven't learned how to use one either. OK, third strike.

The plethora of bite-sized additional courses that PADI kept pushing at that time (night diving, spear fishing, weekday diving in months with an "R"...) just kind of soured me to the whole organization. Night diving as a course? Really? We had to burn a while tank with black-out masks while running an obstacle course, bfd if you're diving at night with a flashlight. That's the same ten foot visibility you often get in the DAYtime in the northeast.(G) Spearfishing? Yeah, a Hawaiian sling is pointy stick, so what?

PADI was oriented toward bite sized pieces, which I can understand. And a perpetual system of bringing the customers back in for more purchases, instead of setting them up to be independent and well-trained divers from the start. I've always disagreed, strongly, with that philosophy. And with the fact that while some organizations insisted on "panic day" in the pool and flunking students who couldn't stand panic hazing "because they might drown", I agreed with the contrary opinion that they were more likely to drown IN THE OPEN WATER if you let them get that far without panic screening.

Another one of those members (YMCA/PADI trained also) had a regulator diaphragm leak at 75? feet in the ocean, made a panic ascent ignoring her buddy and octopus, and spent the night and next day at a chamber.

So while I wouldn't say the PADI philosophy has been "wrong" from the start...I do say that I vehemently disagree with their methods and I compare their success to McDonald's burgers: A mediocre excuse for a burger that any pub or diner can beat six ways from Sunday. But sold cheap and heavily advertised, and very successful with the public because of it. What they do, and how they do it, has made them huge. And if the Nooze keeps making a bid deal out of divers who die and the lawsuits their estates bring...PADI style "bite size" training could leave us with what the sport needs least of all: Government regulation.

 

[BertStevens]

I've not read this entire thread, but it seems to me, that local PADI shops are missing a great opportunity. Contact these Customers and offer a free or discounted refresher to insure they have the necessary skills. You'd probably create a long term relationship leading to future sales and training opportunities.

 

[NYCNaiad]

I've not read this entire thread, but it seems to me, that local PADI shops are missing a great opportunity. Contact these Customers and offer a free or discounted refresher to insure they have the necessary skills. You'd probably create a long term relationship leading to future sales and training opportunities.

Yes, however, how would they know who the customers are? The customers are only known to PADI & the original dive shop. The only thing they could do would be some type of generic ad, but I don't think that would work well. Maybe they could provide this offer to PADI who could then contact the customers with the offer, but I don't see that happening either.

 

[pconsidine]

Padi could have mentioned in letter nearest five star Padi shop where to go and participate in a refresher or Re-activate at reduced or no
cost to customer,this would be a great P.R. move..

 

[kelemvor]

You are correct that almost 100% of the time when a customer comes in with a shredded tire it is the customers fault. We take care of that by having a policy that if the tire had legal tread depth we split the cost of a new one with the customer. No convincing, no arguing. I don't think we have ever had a customer go away mad over that policy. Of course it we see something that makes us think it might have been a defective tire we just cover it. The truth is that a defective American made tire is about as likely as hens needing dentures. In this case PADI is trying to put legal distance between them and their instructors. If one of those students manages to kill themselves without paying for more training it could get interesting.

I wouldn't call an American made tire being defective unlikely at all. Back in 2000 there was a recurrence of a major tire scandal with Firestone tires. Apparently the (now recalled) tires were for sale as recently as 2013. Firestone Tire and Rubber Company - Wikipedia It wasn't the first time Firestone had the same problem, either. Now, I will concede that maybe it was all just made up and a money grab at Firestone's expense. Maybe. I am not willing to risk my life or that of my children on it.

So, to continue with the car vs scuba instruction analogy. Firestone not dealing with it properly and pushing the issue into courtrooms has alienated many potential customers. I know I would never buy a Firestone tire or a car with one on it. Ever. There are just too many alternatives to make them worth considering. I'm quite sure there are many people out there with the same opinion.

So, PADI can certainly ignore the issue. Some divers will remember what we consider to be less than honorable treatment of the affected PADI customers and may not choose PADI as a result. Will enough divers find out and remember that potential losses are greater than the expense of retraining? That's a definite maybe since I bet there really is almost no cost in giving someone the online portion of training for free a second time. There may be some cost in the stuff done by an instructor, if PADI couldn't find one to volunteer. On the other hand.. in 6 months, hardly anyone except google search results will remember this issue even occurred.

For further consideration. What do you guys think will happen if one of these divers dies on a scuba dive? You can bet your butt that PADI will be in the crosshairs in the courtroom. The document isn't going to protect them. In fact, it will probably be used as evidence that they acknowledged the divers training was subpar yet did nothing.

 

[Topmaul]

Raise your hand if you think OW is too easy?

 

[J_Rod]

PADI is my only experience in training...I got my AOW in 86 and PADI was the shiznit back then...I always found it offensive when a NAUI Instructor poo-pooed my AOW Cert...looking at the current course curriculum and programs PADI offers however, it's pretty plain to see they chose a "turn one course into three" business model...how much was greed and how much was for survival, I am not sure, but it is obvious things have changed. I loved my instructor and was trained VERY well...well enough to save my Uncle in an air emergeny and deal with other situations over the years. Things have gotten easier though, and I would compare the pay for play to a Martial Arts dojo handing out Blackbelts to 5 year olds whose parents paid the fees...but MANY industries have gone this direction...because...after all....if we can afford it...WE DESERVE IT, RIGHT?? Facetious...

 

[boulderjohn]

Things have gotten easier though,

Be specific.

 

[decompression]

I said that PADI doesn't know whether the recipient received "defective/bogus parts", just that some customers have received such, and thus they've given them a warning

Hey Kosta, firstly I was pleasantly surprised to see a response from PADI, kudos, but I agree with Frank that more could have been done by PADI and maybe another shop, its an opportunity missed. Debateable.

The issue I have is this, "here is your card, you weren't trained properly.......". inferring that its still recognised as a certification with the caveat that you shoud (not "we will ensure your training will be up to the correct and safe standard") seek further training. And it varies from a simple theory review to a complete completion of another OW course. How confident are these students in their ability to dive safely?

I compare this to......"here's your skydiving license, you weren't trained properly but we aren't going to tell you what you missed......and you can still go skydiving by showing this card." "maybe you should go online and do a review about different kinds of chutes....."