jaycanwk
Contributor
I havn't had a chance to read this whole thread yet but the impression I'm getting Is that he is a crook and a thief.
Scuba Schools of America/Rusty Berry
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This guy is well known in the industry. Pity the poor newbies who meet up with him. He has been practicing the same scams for years.
I've seen this thread for a while, but never had any dealings with SSA, other than seeing them at some events where local dive shops shared the portable pool for people to try scuba. At this year's Long Beach scuba show, they were right across from Lavacore, which my LDS doesn't carry. Since they had a great price at the show (Lavacore referred me to SSA there), so I went and tried on tops. Not finding the right size / style, the attentive SSA young sales lady and I walked over to the Lavacore display, tried on some other sizes, and I found which size worked. Then we went back to the SSA booth and confirmed they had something similar in the right size for sale. I'm normally not a fan of paying at a scuba show and hoping the merchandise shows up later, so took the top with me (besides the discounted price, they were throwing in Lavacore hood, booties or gloves for free), along with my freebie gloves. No complaints, but again, I've seen this thread. On a very positive note, I got a call about a week and a half ago from the store just following up to see how I liked the Lavacore top - totally unexpected and way beyond what I ever expected
Not passing any judgement on them one way or another, just passing on another data point
ktownyoyo
Registered
Rusty Berry SCUBA SCHOOLS of AMERICA is a complete ripoff
If you guys have an issue, it really should be posted on YELP. The only way to stop Rusty Berry and his further entrapments and swindles is to stop the steady stream of customers to his store. Yelp provides that opportunity. SCUBA forums are great, but to really hit his pocketbook you need to do things to stop the steads stream of new customers and "fresh fish" who get taken. Here is the link, please add:
Scuba Schools of America - Montclair, CA | Yelp
If you guys have an issue, it really should be posted on YELP. The only way to stop Rusty Berry and his further entrapments and swindles is to stop the steady stream of customers to his store. Yelp provides that opportunity. SCUBA forums are great, but to really hit his pocketbook you need to do things to stop the steads stream of new customers and "fresh fish" who get taken. Here is the link, please add:
Scuba Schools of America - Montclair, CA | Yelp
AZTinman
Contributor
Geez... long-lived thread...
The original post was back in November 2010 and it's still drawing responses. That's like around three and a half years ago. Is this guy (RB) even still around and in business?
-AZTinman
The original post was back in November 2010 and it's still drawing responses. That's like around three and a half years ago. Is this guy (RB) even still around and in business?
-AZTinman
ktownyoyo
Registered
Yes besides my yelp he has a few 2014
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
While I can sympathize with the original poster to some degree, the bottom line is this thread is mostly about buyer's remorse. Ultimately, is Rusty good for divers or not? To answer that, one has to ask, "What is good for divers?" I see diving in many ways like snow skiing. And there are two ways to become a skier: 1. go to the slopes improperly outfitted, rent skis boots and poles, and teach yourself. OR 2. Get properly outfitted, buy gear, and take lessons. Which one is more likely to result in someone who masters skiing and makes it a lifetime sport? Number 1? Lets talk about number 1: This person probably doesn't have the right hood, jacket, goggles, face mask, layered high tech under garments, pants or socks. They rent stuff that is different each time and doesn't fit properly, and self teaching is slow, often uncomfortable, and dangerous. It can be miserable because falling down without proper outfitting can get you wet. Just being on the mountain when the weather changes without proper outfitting can be miserable. And without proper training, it can easily cause injuries or even be fatal. Number 2 is ready for anything, comfortable, is learning in the same gear he is going to use after learning, and is learning skills quickly and learning how not to get injured. BUT, the price for Number 2 - which is the price of becoming a skier, is more than the price of Number 1. In fact, outfitting (clothing - or "exposure protection") can easily cost $1000. Then gear can easily cost another $1000. Lift tickets for 5 days of learning can easily be $400. And finally the instructor can easily be $100 / hour. So let's say 6 hours = $600. So for $3000, you are on your way to 'being' a skier - and skiing isn't even a life support sport with very specialized exposure protection and equipment! BUT - now you are invested in skiing, so you are more likely to go skiing. Skiing is also more convenient now - no more having to go down and rent gear the night before, standing in any rental lines, or having to return any gear the day after! You just throw your stuff in the car and go - get a ticket and jump on the lift!
Now I don't know where this notion that scuba diving is supposed to be cheap came from, but it is not. And if you want to get trained by a professional - and when I say professional, I don't mean just an instructor - I mean someone who makes their entire living from scuba, there is cost involved to keep the professional in business. I don't think most posters in this thread have any idea what it takes to be in business, but it is expensive. That is why golf pros, tennis pros, and ski pros, all charge $100+ per hour. Why is scuba supposed to be different? Did anyone notice that one of the instructors who posted in one of these threads is a geologist? In other words, he is working in the scuba industry for peanuts and utilizes his other job to feed himself. So if you want to go to the 'sporting goods warehouse' he works at (which is not a scuba specific shop), then knock yourself out. But if you want to rely on the advice of and get training from a bona-fide scuba shop, then go to Rusty!
Anyone who says wetsuit diving is acceptable hasn't dove dry. I've seen the wetsuit divers shivering on the boats - jealously eying the drysuit divers as they unzip down to their comfortable warm clothes after a dive. Heck - I used to be one of those shivering saps. Bottom line - compared to the drysuit diver, the wetsuit diver isn't going to dive as often - especially not in the winter, and isn't going to go as deep - not because they don't want to, but because they can't. In cold water, like what we have in California, diving dry is like skiing in a high tech parka and ski pants, layered with high tech undergarments - while diving wet is like skiing in a pair of jeans and whatever old non-skiing specific jacket is hanging in your closet!
Good dry suits are expensive - $2000+! A high end regulator $1000 (yes, almost anyone can tell the difference, in fact, without saying anything to him about which is better, my 11 year old boy can tell the difference!). A good dive computer - $500. Another $500 for 'soft gear'. $500+ for a good bc. Other accessories and training materials another $500. Cylinder and drysuit underwear is another $500. So now we are at $5500 without much thinking. Add California state sales tax to that ($500) and that brings you to $6000. I don't know what the OP got for $8000 though, but the sky is the limit in scuba.
If you are new to diving - the notion that all training programs are the same is simply not true. Like most things in life - you get what you pay for. One poster wrote that Rusty's store wasn't reputable because they didn't even teach padi there. The notion that padi is 'the bar' by which to judge by is just ridiculous. Padi is the Dryers vanilla ice cream of scuba - the basic flavor and brand that is usually on sale so it is the same price or cheaper than the store brand. Like Dryers, padi has great marketing, and sells a heck of a lot of half gallons of vanilla, but if you want something more special, you look to the left and get one of those pint sized Haagen Dazs or Ben and Jerry's. They cost four times as much, but can you tell the difference? Again, even my 11 year old can instantly tell the difference. Many on this board will spout off that 'it's the instructor - not the agency', which is partially true. BUT why is it true? And might you find the higher percentage of 'good' instructors are in one agency another agency? I think yes, but if you only ever eat Dryers vanilla, you will never know the difference. You will think your vanilla instructor is the best. Why? Because you haven't experienced Haagen Dazs! With some some agencies, the difference may seem subtle at first - because the philosophy behind what each agency is based on is different, but eventually, for most instructors, these philosophies come through and result in better prepared divers. With other agencies, the difference is striking right from the start. The only reason for reducing yourself to padi is if you want to be just another store that sells vanilla, and you buy into the idea that padi is going to magically send new divers through your door for more vanilla ... there is a difference, and if you are honestly interested, feel free to pm me ...
There used to be 6 scuba shops in my area, but now there is only 1. Why do you think that is? They - mainly sold cards and snorkeling gear, and didn't sell enough 'total diving systems' to create enough divers to keep the doors open!
So what is Rusty really doing wrong? He is a good salesman and gets people to commit to an investment in scuba - which is hard to do! By doing so, they are more likely to like the sport and continue to do it - unlike the person in number 1 who is miserable on the slopes, and will consequently give up skiing. I say the person everyone should be grousing about is the department store scuba instructor that lies to the masses - telling them scuba is cheap - coaxes $500 - $1000 out of them, and then watches them be miserable underwater, scares them in a short class with minimal practice and instruction, never gets them to commit to scuba by invest in real gear, and consequently they give up on diving. And what do they have to show for it? A card, some snorkeling gear, and some books? I would argue that there are far many more of those people out there than the ones who Rusty gets to commit but then still don't like it.
Is it unfortunate that people who do commit to all the right stuff still don't like scuba? of course. but that is bound to happen no matter how hard you try ... but I'll bet those who Rusty gets to commit are more likely to continue diving than those who never commit at the department store. So think about it - which is better for the the diver and the diving industry - the department store that sells snorkeling gear and cards? Or the professional dive shop, like Rusty's, that creates committed divers AND does what is has to to stay in business?
Now I don't know where this notion that scuba diving is supposed to be cheap came from, but it is not. And if you want to get trained by a professional - and when I say professional, I don't mean just an instructor - I mean someone who makes their entire living from scuba, there is cost involved to keep the professional in business. I don't think most posters in this thread have any idea what it takes to be in business, but it is expensive. That is why golf pros, tennis pros, and ski pros, all charge $100+ per hour. Why is scuba supposed to be different? Did anyone notice that one of the instructors who posted in one of these threads is a geologist? In other words, he is working in the scuba industry for peanuts and utilizes his other job to feed himself. So if you want to go to the 'sporting goods warehouse' he works at (which is not a scuba specific shop), then knock yourself out. But if you want to rely on the advice of and get training from a bona-fide scuba shop, then go to Rusty!
Anyone who says wetsuit diving is acceptable hasn't dove dry. I've seen the wetsuit divers shivering on the boats - jealously eying the drysuit divers as they unzip down to their comfortable warm clothes after a dive. Heck - I used to be one of those shivering saps. Bottom line - compared to the drysuit diver, the wetsuit diver isn't going to dive as often - especially not in the winter, and isn't going to go as deep - not because they don't want to, but because they can't. In cold water, like what we have in California, diving dry is like skiing in a high tech parka and ski pants, layered with high tech undergarments - while diving wet is like skiing in a pair of jeans and whatever old non-skiing specific jacket is hanging in your closet!
Good dry suits are expensive - $2000+! A high end regulator $1000 (yes, almost anyone can tell the difference, in fact, without saying anything to him about which is better, my 11 year old boy can tell the difference!). A good dive computer - $500. Another $500 for 'soft gear'. $500+ for a good bc. Other accessories and training materials another $500. Cylinder and drysuit underwear is another $500. So now we are at $5500 without much thinking. Add California state sales tax to that ($500) and that brings you to $6000. I don't know what the OP got for $8000 though, but the sky is the limit in scuba.
If you are new to diving - the notion that all training programs are the same is simply not true. Like most things in life - you get what you pay for. One poster wrote that Rusty's store wasn't reputable because they didn't even teach padi there. The notion that padi is 'the bar' by which to judge by is just ridiculous. Padi is the Dryers vanilla ice cream of scuba - the basic flavor and brand that is usually on sale so it is the same price or cheaper than the store brand. Like Dryers, padi has great marketing, and sells a heck of a lot of half gallons of vanilla, but if you want something more special, you look to the left and get one of those pint sized Haagen Dazs or Ben and Jerry's. They cost four times as much, but can you tell the difference? Again, even my 11 year old can instantly tell the difference. Many on this board will spout off that 'it's the instructor - not the agency', which is partially true. BUT why is it true? And might you find the higher percentage of 'good' instructors are in one agency another agency? I think yes, but if you only ever eat Dryers vanilla, you will never know the difference. You will think your vanilla instructor is the best. Why? Because you haven't experienced Haagen Dazs! With some some agencies, the difference may seem subtle at first - because the philosophy behind what each agency is based on is different, but eventually, for most instructors, these philosophies come through and result in better prepared divers. With other agencies, the difference is striking right from the start. The only reason for reducing yourself to padi is if you want to be just another store that sells vanilla, and you buy into the idea that padi is going to magically send new divers through your door for more vanilla ... there is a difference, and if you are honestly interested, feel free to pm me ...
There used to be 6 scuba shops in my area, but now there is only 1. Why do you think that is? They - mainly sold cards and snorkeling gear, and didn't sell enough 'total diving systems' to create enough divers to keep the doors open!
So what is Rusty really doing wrong? He is a good salesman and gets people to commit to an investment in scuba - which is hard to do! By doing so, they are more likely to like the sport and continue to do it - unlike the person in number 1 who is miserable on the slopes, and will consequently give up skiing. I say the person everyone should be grousing about is the department store scuba instructor that lies to the masses - telling them scuba is cheap - coaxes $500 - $1000 out of them, and then watches them be miserable underwater, scares them in a short class with minimal practice and instruction, never gets them to commit to scuba by invest in real gear, and consequently they give up on diving. And what do they have to show for it? A card, some snorkeling gear, and some books? I would argue that there are far many more of those people out there than the ones who Rusty gets to commit but then still don't like it.
Is it unfortunate that people who do commit to all the right stuff still don't like scuba? of course. but that is bound to happen no matter how hard you try ... but I'll bet those who Rusty gets to commit are more likely to continue diving than those who never commit at the department store. So think about it - which is better for the the diver and the diving industry - the department store that sells snorkeling gear and cards? Or the professional dive shop, like Rusty's, that creates committed divers AND does what is has to to stay in business?
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AZTinman
Contributor
Folks are certainly entitled their perspectives.
As an individual who who lived in ski country and skied for more than forty years, My perspective on using downhill snow skiing as an analogy to scuba diving is somewhat different than that expressed in another's recent post to this thread. I learned to ski quite easily without spending 'big' bucks on gear and taught a lot of other people to ski without any kind of significant cash outlay.
My first ski jacket was a military surplus field jacket (M65) and I skied in blue jeans. I rented skis, boot, and poles for my first couple of seasons. If I remember correctly, my goggles cost me $5.00 at the local ski shop. Ski schools and instructors... my ski buddies and I didn't have money to pay for that kind of stuff. We taught ourselves. Frankly, we were more interested in spending our money on gas, lift tickets and beer.
When I could afford to buy my own ski gear, I bought what I needed when I could afford it. Over the course of forty years of skiing, my gear needs changed. As the tech stuff with skiing equipment improved, I upgraded. When I stopped skiing four years ago, I had a nice collection of skis, boots and Gore-Tex clothing; I didn't buy all this stuff at once and I thoroughly enjoyed skiing from the first moment I slipped into that first pair of rental boots.
Don't get me wrong; I would be the last one to advocate a minimalist approach to those entering the sport of scuba diving. Sure, getting quality diving gear isn't cheap. Using snow skiing as an analogy just doesn't work for me based upon my own personal experience.
-AZTinman
As an individual who who lived in ski country and skied for more than forty years, My perspective on using downhill snow skiing as an analogy to scuba diving is somewhat different than that expressed in another's recent post to this thread. I learned to ski quite easily without spending 'big' bucks on gear and taught a lot of other people to ski without any kind of significant cash outlay.
My first ski jacket was a military surplus field jacket (M65) and I skied in blue jeans. I rented skis, boot, and poles for my first couple of seasons. If I remember correctly, my goggles cost me $5.00 at the local ski shop. Ski schools and instructors... my ski buddies and I didn't have money to pay for that kind of stuff. We taught ourselves. Frankly, we were more interested in spending our money on gas, lift tickets and beer.
When I could afford to buy my own ski gear, I bought what I needed when I could afford it. Over the course of forty years of skiing, my gear needs changed. As the tech stuff with skiing equipment improved, I upgraded. When I stopped skiing four years ago, I had a nice collection of skis, boots and Gore-Tex clothing; I didn't buy all this stuff at once and I thoroughly enjoyed skiing from the first moment I slipped into that first pair of rental boots.
Don't get me wrong; I would be the last one to advocate a minimalist approach to those entering the sport of scuba diving. Sure, getting quality diving gear isn't cheap. Using snow skiing as an analogy just doesn't work for me based upon my own personal experience.
-AZTinman
I've been skiing for over 35 yrs. Was doing double diamonds at Telluride... and other areas out west as well as going off piste. Now, not so much... as lack of time & money don't help and bad knees are creeping in. I started out learning with rentals and "graduated" to used 160cm Spauldings with the attached binding plates. Bought a warm $5 hat and used a "whatever old non-skiing specific jacket" and scarf with layers underneath. I, too, had the beginner blue jean outfit, but I had the best fun. Upgraded my equipment as I learned to ski. As I got better, I could appreciate the improvements in the equipment while selecting the equipment best suited to my style of skiing. Something that would be totally lost on a beginner buying everything at once before a lesson. Lessons were group rate when I could afford it. Building myself as a skier this way made me appreciate the finer points of the equipment and technique. It also made me a lifelong skier... and I've learned that only so much equipment makes the skier. A good skier can ski on almost anything and look good while having fun. Same thing with diving!!!
@sigxbill - While it's good to see another view point from the other side defending Rusty, I'd be careful about blowing a little smoke here. There's great depth in knowledge and experience on this forum for diving... And they can navigate through the poor vis.
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