Selection and Shipping dilemma or not

[jtpwils]

Hi Tobin,
Here's my situation and I'd like your opinion.

I'm a brand new diver and I want to learn/train in my own gear rather than something else. After a lot of research I've decided a DSS rig makes the most sense. I have my OW confined dives on Mon, Wed and Thurs of this coming week.

I'm 5'7", 160 lbs, and a bit buoyant but not very much so. Since I can't give real ballast numbers all I can say in this regard is this: I can swim pretty far underwater with full lungs and not tend to go up too much, I can float on the surface but do need to move my arms a bit to avoid sinking, I definately can not just sit on the bottom of a pool.

I will be doing Caribbean diving in a 3mil fullsuit (Bare velocity 3/2 - according to this years Scuba lab tests is 0# inherent boyancy) or possibly in swim trunks and tee shirt. My OW checkout dives will be in a fresh water with 7mil full suit. I expect that both times I will be diving with AL80s.

Using the "ultimate wing calculator" and the numbers for an AL80 from Luxfer, I'd need no lead and 17.8 lbs of lift diving bare and 15lbs of lead and 16.8lbs of lift in the 7 mill suit. So I'm figuring on a med SS plate, Hog harness and a 20#torus wing.

So the big questions are:
1.) Can you confirm the rig or suggest a better fit given I don't have real ballast numbers? Would it help if I checked my neutral balance in a pool with no scuba gear, just holding weights to see what it takes to sink me?
2.) If I order something Saturday afternoon (Eastern time) when can I get it in NJ?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hi Tobin,
Here's my situation and I'd like your opinion.

I'm a brand new diver and I want to learn/train in my own gear rather than something else. After a lot of research I've decided a DSS rig makes the most sense. I have my OW confined dives on Mon, Wed and Thurs of this coming week.

I'm 5'7", 160 lbs, and a bit buoyant but not very much so. Since I can't give real ballast numbers all I can say in this regard is this: I can swim pretty far underwater with full lungs and not tend to go up too much, I can float on the surface but do need to move my arms a bit to avoid sinking, I definately can not just sit on the bottom of a pool.

I will be doing Caribbean diving in a 3mil fullsuit (Bare velocity 3/2 - according to this years Scuba lab tests is 0# inherent boyancy) or possibly in swim trunks and tee shirt. My OW checkout dives will be in a fresh water with 7mil full suit. I expect that both times I will be diving with AL80s.

Using the "ultimate wing calculator" and the numbers for an AL80 from Luxfer, I'd need no lead and 17.8 lbs of lift diving bare and 15lbs of lead and 16.8lbs of lift in the 7 mill suit. So I'm figuring on a med SS plate, Hog harness and a 20#torus wing.

So the big questions are:
1.) Can you confirm the rig or suggest a better fit given I don't have real ballast numbers? Would it help if I checked my neutral balance in a pool with no scuba gear, just holding weights to see what it takes to sink me?
2.) If I order something Saturday afternoon (Eastern time) when can I get it in NJ?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim,

I prefer real numbers, but I can make a educated guess about what you need.

Your wing needs to be sized for the most buoyant suit you will be using, and that's the 7mm suit.

While you *might* be able to use a 20 with a 7mm suit if I have to estimate the buoyancy I'd recommend going one size larger, i.e. a Torus 26.

At 5'7" you need a medium plate, and with al 80's a Stainless plate makes sense.

Recap:

Medium SS plate
Torus 26 wing
Hogarthian Harness
(cambands and wedge blocks are included)

If we get the order before about noon we usually ship the same day. How soon you receive it depends on how much you want to pay in freight.

When do you need it?

Tobin

 

[jtpwils]

For real numbers would my actual body buoyancy as measured by what it takes to sink me in a pool without any gear work? I could get that to you by noon.

My MOST buoyant suit will be the drysuit I'm wearing in a few years. Although then I'll probably be carrying a steel HP 100. I figured that I'd worry about that then though.

Do you think a 17 would work in the warm water? Might I be better off buying a 17# and 30# wing?

Thanks much.

 

[cool_hardware52]

For real numbers would my actual body buoyancy as measured by what it takes to sink me in a pool without any gear work? I could get that to you by noon.

My MOST buoyant suit will be the drysuit I'm wearing in a few years. Although then I'll probably be carrying a steel HP 100. I figured that I'd worry about that then though.

Do you think a 17 would work in the warm water? Might I be better off buying a 17# and 30# wing?

Thanks much.

Your body's buoyancy doesn't change with depth, and therefore does not need to be compensated for.

Naturally buoyant people need more total ballast and "sinkers" need less, but total ballast and required wing capacity are not the same thing.

There is a reason why we offer 15 different wings, and plates in two materials, no one choice will be ideal for all diving. The risk remains that you might buy something today and need something else in the future.

I've made a recommendation, and until you have finite numbers for me to use anything else is speculation.

Tobin

 

[jtpwils]

no one choice will be ideal for all diving. The risk remains that you might buy something today and need something else in the future.

I've made a recommendation, and until you have finite numbers for me to use anything else is speculation.

Understood.

Your wing needs to be sized for the most buoyant suit you will be using, and that's the 7mm suit.

Thus, I understood that recommendation was for a wing that is suitable for the warm and cold water diving. When I asked about a 17 and a 30 I was figuring that an extra 4lbs of lift couldn't hurt and I would use the 30 where you recommend the 26. The additional question I was inferring but didn't explictly ask was if you thought a 17 would be good for the warm water.

Since buoyancy compensators only compensate for exposure suits, if I'm diving without one in warm water or at least one with 0 inherent buoyancy, is that recommendation as speculative as the first?

Finally, I sincerely apologize that my ignorance leads to your spending time further explaining speculative answers. I'm just trying to learn - not question the accuracy of your educated guess. I also appreciate your taking the time, ON A SATURDAY, to discuss business aspects.
Jim

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who dives and has sold a couple of the DSS rigs to students. If you really plan on coldwater and drysuit later with a heavy steel then the LCD 30 wing is the way to go in my book.

The 20 may pack a LITTLE smaller but I can't see it being by much. I have used my lcd 30, med plate and hog harness in drysuit, 5mm, 3mm, skin, and bathing suit with everything from al80's to steel 95's. It works damn good! Plenty of lift, streamlined, and get one with the 22mil bladder. I am also 5'7 160-65lbs with a little bit of "padding" but working on that. You could go with both wings having the 17 for travel. I've considered that and still may but it will be coupled with a kydex plate and I'll just use a belt or camband pockets.

I originally bought two wings with mine. The 30 and a 50 for doubles. That lasted until the first time I needed to switch over. THen I got another plate and harness. I'd ordered it for a student and his wife was unaware he was buying it. She was not pleased. I took the plate and now have a doubles and singles rig and he got to stay married. Judging from her reactions to his move I got the better deal!

 

[jtpwils]

If you really plan on coldwater and drysuit later with a heavy steel then the LCD 30 wing is the way to go in my book.

You could go with both wings having the 17 for travel.

My thinking exactly, 17 lb. for travel to Carib. but 30 for local NJ diving....but I know at this point my thinking isn't worth too much.

Ps
Tobin,
Another really dumb question: Is there anything other than a "complete rig" that needs to be ordered to have what I need?
Thanks.

 

[cool_hardware52]

My thinking exactly, 17 lb. for travel to Carib. but 30 for local NJ diving....but I know at this point my thinking isn't worth too much.

The Torus 26 is enough for cold water based on the information provided. It's also very likely to perform fine in warm water.

We can of course sell you two wings, but my standard recommendation for new BP&W buyers, many of whom dive in both warm and cold water, is to carefully size their cold water wing, and then see how it performs in warm water.

They can always get a second smaller wing if they want to later.

Tobin

 

[Jim Lapenta]

And that's why I recommend DSS to everyone. That kind of honesty and business acumen that puts the customer first. Rarely seen in today's society in any area of commerce.

 

[jtpwils]

ok - that sounds like a good plan. Like Mr. Lap, I appreciate your integrity as well as the advice. BTW - the high regards for your character/customer service played as big a role as the excellent reputation your products have in my choosing to buy your gear.