Shell collectors ?

[MaxBottomtime]

Plankton produce most of the oxygen we breathe. Small size matters in the Earth's ecosystem.

 

[RyanT]

@TMHeimer, don't worry if you don't know much about snails, you're in good company. Compared to other animals, the ecology of gastropod mollusks is something we know virtually nothing about. With the exception of a handful of species, such as the marsh periwinkle, this really diverse group has gone almost completely unstudied with regards to ecology. Early on I had planned to make my career studying molluscan ecology, but opportunities steered me down other roads.

@drrich2, size can be related to overall number and vulnerability to harvest, but it often is not. Much of it depends on the animal's trophic position. Predators are always less abundant than herbivores. For a terrestrial example, elk are many times larger than wolves and are much more abundant. Since this thread is about shells, here's another example, queen conchs are large herbivorous snails. Until we started eating them all, they were really abundant. Cone snails are predatory, many times smaller than the queen conch, and are found in much lower densities. Many species of cone snails would not withstand the harvest rate we've applied to queen conchs.

With that said, there are instances where small size probably is correlated with overall abundance and reproductive rate. Those little coquina clams that you find in the surf line come to mind. So again, it really depends.

Best,
Ryan

 

[TMHeimer]

That explains why coquinas are pretty much the only species you can still collect live in Lee Co. (Sanibel) FL.

 

[Nikole]

I have a conch shell that I bought from a shop. J keep it in my bathroom for decoration. When I was little and we would go on cruises we would buy conch shells from the locals and Bleach them at home for a few days. And then I kept them in my bedroom as decoration. Where i live were not allowed to pick up conch shells out of our "backyard" so yeah. Sux. They're being overfished in the Caribbean.. I know like at state parks if you see even an empty conch shell thru don't want anyone picking it up.

 

[Laurie S.]

"Laurie S.
I've been collecting, and buying, shells since I was a child. When I'm at my home in San Carlos, Mexico, as I am now, I'll be collecting to do double duty--ceviche and shells."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At last ---A honest diver with a honest reply ..

A lot of old diving memories were elicited from your post.

FYI a little history;
In 1955 Ernesto Zaraota who was a wealthy local who enjoyed the sport of spearfishing organized the first ( and only} Inter American Spearfishing competition between Mexican and American (aka Californian divers) to be held the then unknown never dove at Bahia de San Carlos It was not much of a contest as the Americans sweep the field.

The winning American team was composed of (as I recall) The Long Beach Douglas Air Craft team of Howard Patton and John Gaffney. Sadly Howard passed away several years later from a commercial diving accident. John went on to establish the very active dive training organization NASDS- National Association of Skin-diving Schools- (now SSI) which since John's demise about 15 years ago no longer exists.

In 1955 I was a young USAF officer stationed at Luke AFB in Glendale Arizona. One of my fellow officers was the late Kit Horn who had swam for UCLA , but most importantly had worked part time for Rene Bussoz at Rene Sporting goods, which was changed to US Divers and in 1954 sold to JYC & company which is now known as Aqua lung.

We teamed up as work out partners -swimming and lifting to the point we were poster boys to what a USAF officer should look like - big shoulders & chest and a pencil thin waist (those were the days!)

We read in "Skin Diver Magazine ; a magazine for "spear fishermen" and skin divers" about the spear fishing meet at San Carlos won by The Long Beach Douglas Air Craft team.

We decided to build some spear guns based on the design developed in 1938 by the late Bill Barada (LA Co UW Instructor) and go for a look see at this place called San Carlos

The base salvage yard was a treasure trove of Co2 bottles, tubes and just plain junk every thing needed to construct a Barada CO2 gas gun and we did- five of them.

The "Spear gun five" Kit & I and three enlisted air men took off for San Carlos, Mexico. Several miles below the border we stopped at a Mexican Immigration shack signed our name in a spiral bound note book and gave the official one gringo dollar and were on our way to adventure.

We almost missed the sign for Bahia ..it was and for several years a very small faded board nailed to a post. We turned on to a rutted dusty seldom used and certainly never repaired road. Finally we reached the end where we were met by. two Mexican families who where as happy to see us as we them.

Our purpose was to spear so into the water we went -only to discovered the guns worked flawlessly but the points were not holding -- never the less we did manage to land enough fish to share in a communal feast ,

We also gathered an abundant amount of the huge heavy rock scallops as well as a bag of the conchs which littered the floor of the bay and were early inductees into the world of Mexican ceviche.

As a group we never returned - transfers, separations and discharges. So many good and great memories of the "Spear gun five"

I returned annually until 1963 -possibly 1964, when civilization when trailers begin dotting the land and the Yacht club was established at the point.

That last year I was shooting a rubber powered California long gun called the "Bottom Scratcher" and speared a 38 or was it 48 ? pound Pargo- aka red snapper which I shared with other campers. a few days later I ventured in to the Yacht club to learn they had a Pargo contest in progress and the largest was a 15 pounder..

The passing parade of diving history....FYI it did Not begin with PADI

SDM

Laurie
From my files a bit about the Bottom Scratcher Spear gun -- Double horror Collecting Sea shells and a SPEAR GUN !

Oh the horror of it all...

I didn't build it ...but it was a DIY garage built gun..

My all time favorite spear gun is a "Bottom Scratcher." It was designed/developed in 1939 by Wally Potts and perfected by the Bottom Scratcher spear fishing club of San Diego, California. It is the original California long gun, constructed of by the joining of a simple tube SS handle containing a one piece trigger to a 1&1/4 inch dowel barrel, and a long balance bar that was either made of wood or SS.

In the very early days if spear fishing around 1950 Wally sold a Bottom Scratcher gun to Paul Hoss a member of the Dolphins spear fishing club which had won the very first spear fishing meet in Laguna Beach in the Summer of 1950. When he sold it to Paul who lived in a suburb of LA, Jack Prodanovich is reported to have said to Wally that "Selling a gun up north was like selling guns to the Yankees." And he was correct. Paul disassembled the gun did some modifications that improved the trigger pull and began producing a very close copy affectionately became known as the "Hoss gun" by the "Yankees" of Los Angeles and Orange County.

The Hoss copy was cosmetically and functionally identical in every respect except for the Sturgil muzzle which was the muzzle of choice for all guns used by serious Yankee spear fishermen. The guns which were made by Wally and Paul were all custom made therefore no two were exactly identical. It was reported substantially less than 100 were made in a 30 plus year period by Wally and some where between 20 and 30 by Paul in about a 10 year period. Needless to say they were difficult to obtain and are now scarce and highly prized by those who own them, or collectors of diving memorabilia.

Known through out the spear fishing fraternity as the "California long gun" and on occasion the "Long Tom," they were made for long shots at big fish in then the clear unpolluted waters of SoCal.
I was fortunate to have ended up with two. My own personal custom gun and a friend's who after being chased out of the water by a shark decided that spear fishing was not for him, so he sold it to me a half what a bare unrigged new one costs -$20.00.

My guns measure 7 foot 9 inches plus the point which can have many configurations and lengths adding as much as a foot if the Prodanovich point impact aka power head was used. It has a sling pull of 4 foot 8 inches and the 5/16 diameter SS arrow rides on the first rails to be installed on a spear gun. It has a balance bar that extends approximately 15 inches behind the trigger mechanism.

It was made during the era of the kettle cured rubber. I can't recall when surgical rubber for spear gun slings became popular but I think in the mid 1950s. I used 28 or less inches of surgical tubing for power when it became popular and readily available. I do vividly recall the first time I test fired it at Ships Rock off Catalina using the then new surgical slings...the Arbalete type slide ring exploded totally disintegrated ! The arrow went flying in to the blue water never to be seen again by man--or at least me...so slide rings from aerospace material was custom made. A number of years later Joe La Monica who developed the Voit/ Mares/JBL gun began producing a very strong SS slide ring which I modified and converted my guns to use.

My first and my favorite gun has a custom (aka home made) "San Diego" style "dump pack" constructed from a piece of SS sheet, a SS Piano hinge, several lengths of WW 11 webbing and a SS rod as the release pin. The dump pack contained 200 feet of yellow 1/8 Polypropylene line fan folded into small bunches secured by two pieces of a bicycle inner tube (they won't rot) terminating with a small WW11 water purification bag modified into an automatic Co2 inflation float. It has a 15 inch SS balance bar

Gun number two is equipped with a huge six inch "Riffes Reel," produced and marketed about 40 years ago by a now defunct San Diego company by the name of Aquacraft. The reel holds about a jillione miles of hard lay tuna trolling nylon line. I can not recall how much it holds and I have never been reeled there fore cannot accurately state with any reasonable amount of certainty the amount of line on the Riffe's reel but it is a lot! It originally came equipped with a 15 inch balance bar, which the former owner trimmed to eight inches. I found this too short and extended it to it's original length of 15 inches by the addition of a piece of 1 &1/4 wood dowel.

Do I still use the guns? Heck no, especially when one Bottom Scratcher/Hoss gun sold on E bay several years ago for $2500.00 plus dollars.

I have several custom wood guns I made about 30 or more years ago that I currently use, but another story for another time.

But-- I still have wonderful memories of the Bottom Scratcher and years gone by.
SDM,111

I spearfish, too. In fact, tomorrow, I'll be doing just that. Photography on the first dive, spearfishing on the second. And, I'll have a collection bag on me.

 

[EricTheDood]

I buy all my shells from some lady at the shea shore.

 

[TMHeimer]

I have a conch shell that I bought from a shop. J keep it in my bathroom for decoration. When I was little and we would go on cruises we would buy conch shells from the locals and Bleach them at home for a few days. And then I kept them in my bedroom as decoration. Where i live were not allowed to pick up conch shells out of our "backyard" so yeah. Sux. They're being overfished in the Caribbean.. I know like at state parks if you see even an empty conch shell thru don't want anyone picking it up.

Yeah. We had a big Queen Conch shell made into a lamp when I was a kid. Maybe that inspired me into collecting?
I'm not sure if you're right about empty Queen Conchs though. Think I've read that as long as it's obvious it wasn't taken alive, they'll let you go. I don't think that covers the Marine Sanctuary all around the Keys.
I do believe there now is a "Conch Farm" in one Caribbean country and I think one off the Keys as well. Interesting--we can grow them to eat them.---But if YOU take one........
In some Caribbean countries it is illegal to collect on scuba, but OK for a local. So you can buy it on the street and support the local economy. The local guy is still collecting shells live, but that's OK.

 

[Patoux01]

But doesn't size tend to correlate to some extent with total population numbers, and vulnerability to harvesting? In other words, I'd tentatively speculate wolves would be outnumbered by coyotes. There are bound to be exceptions; lions are larger than leopards, but which is more populous (given that lions are social, and leopards more solitary)?

Remember that once the bees are gone, we're all gone. That should be sufficient to get you change your mind, hopefully.

 

[RyanT]

I don't think @drrich2 was suggesting that small animals are not ecologically important, but was instead trying to connect body size with sustainable harvest rates.

 

[urbaneve71]

For as many years that I have been diving, I still collect just one she'll from each place I dive. ...it's kinda a moment of recollection for me