Should There Be a "Cold Water" Course (not Ice Diving)?

[Cabbie]

I keep looking for more "fluffy" specialties, but then I'm a warm water diver.

I am learning so much from SB which is really useful knowledge and would not have known otherwise.

 

[spectrum]

I have mixed feelings on this one. I agree with most of the OP's points, but why not make it a package deal?

Cold Water Diving: Drysuit Speciality, Advanced Navigation, Rough Surf entry/exit, and something else, perhaps diving in kelp or low visibility environments. Reading the ocean/waves/tides/swell model should be in there, too.

Done right I can see that being more content than most OW divers get in the first place but it would be an awesome course.

I'm not so sure about the drysuit part. Most divers don't transition right to dry even though some will get there eventually. The cost of getting them into a rental suit, making sense of their configuration and so forth may push the commitment of time and $$ over the top.

Since you brought advanced navigation into the equation I agree that limited visibility goes hand in hand.

Adding the surf and ocean topics makes sense as those are very different than the typical warm water experience and usually get short shrift in OW.

Pete

 

[diverrobs]

I was not planning on being a cold water diver. I wanted to dive when I was on vacation in the tropics. I found I loved diving and wanted to do it here (Ontario). I had alread done AOW and it did not even occur to me that I should repeat it here. I just think there have got to be alot of people like me who started diving down south and then decided to do it up here thinking they had learned what they needed to know to cold water dive (I didn't). Cold water just isn't an emphasis of people training in the tropics, I just want diving to be safer so I think that there should be an intro to cold water diving course. I would bet that more than 50% of people in Ontario do thier first open water dives in the tropics and get thier OW cert either by referal or entirely in the tropics. Then they come home and decide to dive here and don't see any courses that indicate they need addtional cold water training so they just start diving here.

Remember, I just went through all of this, it is fresh in my mind. I know I would have been all over a "Cold Water Diving" course if it had been available. Additionally here in Ontario, the lake dives tend to be operated by "Charters" not dive shops. So unless you are in a class going out on a charter, you book a spot on a Charter and low and behold, you and your buddy are in deep cold water without appropriate training. I have not seen any "Introduction to Ontario Diving" courses.

After 12 cold water dives I am now just getting used to cold water diving and feeling confident. This could have been reduced to significantly fewer dives if an appropriate course was available here.

Rob

 

[scubadiver888]

I have mixed feelings on this one. I agree with most of the OP's points, but why not make it a package deal?

Cold Water Diving: Drysuit Speciality, Advanced Navigation, Rough Surf entry/exit, and something else, perhaps diving in kelp or low visibility environments. Reading the ocean/waves/tides/swell model should be in there, too.

That would be something worthwhile.

Oh, and when I do go on warm water vacations, and the DM asks those three questions (how many dives, when was your last dive, where do you normally dive?), invariably, when I answer the last one, "Monterey and Carmel," they pretty much say, "oh," and go on to the next diver. No more questions, you get the green light.

It means something the world over.

This wouldn't be 'Cold Water Diver' for me. This is really the 'Monterey Diver' specialty. I don't need or want Drysuit and the only time there is rough surf here is when it is not safe to dive.

I find that the training you get in most places BARELY gives a new diver the skill set they need to dive in that area. The moment you go to a different environment you need training necessary for the conditions. This training is typically comparable to the basic training. So now that I'm diving in Ontario, I'm taking a full training course for Ontario. If I moved to Monterey, I'd re-certify for diving in Monterey.

The only reason I see for now just taking the training over again is cost. Yes, some of the training will be similar to training you already had. But practice never hurts. For me, what seems worse: losing a few hundred dollars or losing my life/health?

I can see how you might not want to go right back to OW but you should just retake AOW as this will add the specialties the local diver instructors feel you need.

The only exception I have found to this rule is that if you were trained in Norway, Monterey, Lake Ontario, etc. then go to the Caribbean you don't need full re-training.

 

[shoredivr]

I don't need or want Drysuit

Never say never....

 

[scubadiver888]

I was not planning on being a cold water diver. I wanted to dive when I was on vacation in the tropics. I found I loved diving and wanted to do it here (Ontario). I had alread done AOW and it did not even occur to me that I should repeat it here. I just think there have got to be alot of people like me who started diving down south and then decided to do it up here thinking they had learned what they needed to know to cold water dive (I didn't). Cold water just isn't an emphasis of people training in the tropics, I just want diving to be safer so I think that there should be an intro to cold water diving course. I would bet that more than 50% of people in Ontario do thier first open water dives in the tropics and get thier OW cert either by referal or entirely in the tropics. Then they come home and decide to dive here and don't see any courses that indicate they need addtional cold water training so they just start diving here.

Remember, I just went through all of this, it is fresh in my mind. I know I would have been all over a "Cold Water Diving" course if it had been available. Additionally here in Ontario, the lake dives tend to be operated by "Charters" not dive shops. So unless you are in a class going out on a charter, you book a spot on a Charter and low and behold, you and your buddy are in deep cold water without appropriate training. I have not seen any "Introduction to Ontario Diving" courses.

After 12 cold water dives I am now just getting used to cold water diving and feeling confident. This could have been reduced to significantly fewer dives if an appropriate course was available here.

Rob

Rob,

I am taking the AOW here. I don't think there is anything I'm learning here that I would cut out. I know how to drift dive, boat dive, deep dive, wreck dive, etc. but that was all done in the Caribbean. It really feels like I'm learning something new on all these specialties by taking them here in Toronto.

Strong currents, low viz and cold water make everything I learnt in the Caribbean need to be re-learnt.

Think about this, you are saying 12 dives here and you are just beginning to feel confident. The PADI AOW training is something like 5 dives. If it took you 12 to feel comfortable, do you think less than 5 training dives would have been sufficient?

I've only been on training dives in Ontario. In the Caribbean, the DM asks what everyone's experience is. Do the charters in Ontario ask what everyone's experience is? I would hope the person giving you a tank of air is going to question what experience you have and suggest you get training if you have never been diving here before.

There seems to be two issues here. First, if you only did diving in the Caribbean you need training to dive Cold Water. Second, you needed someone to suggested you need training to dive Cold Water.

I think the AOW training is really what every Caribbean diver needs to dive in Ontario. It is only five dives. The other problem is you need someone to suggest you get that training.

I'm guessing as a charter there is no incentive to turn away a diver and have him get training first. Maybe the charter should get a kick back for finding students for a training group. Give the charters a reason to turn away a diver. If the diver things he doesn't need the training then take them out anyways but just recommend a training site if they find out the diver has never been diving locally.

 

[scubadiver888]

Never say never....

I'm not saying NEVER to drysuit diving. I'm just saying NOT NOW.

I dive Fall and Spring in the Caribbean, Summer in Ontario. Once I get comfortable in Ontario I'll probably drysuit dive in the Spring and Fall but that is a year or more away.

 

[String]

Using that logic, why don't they go cave diving or shipwreck penetration while they're at it? I mean if they want to see the caves or insides of the wrecks, why should they be excluded?

If you're confusing overhead environments with simply diving in cooler water you're deluded. They aren't comparable. Cold water diving uses EXACTLY the same skillset as warm water diving. Yes the skills are a little harder but nothing more. There are no changes in procedure, no changes in the skills what so ever. The same cant be said for overheads.

Cold water diving you wear a drysuit and thick gloves. Thats about it. Drysuit takes 5 minutes to learn, gloves a bit less.

 

[Rick Inman]

There are no changes in procedure, no changes in the skills what so ever.

Well, there shouldn't be.

But I've seen plenty o' warm water divers, whose skills and procedures have taken them comfortably around the warm water sites of the world, who are unable to get a handle on the basics in our local ponds. Actually unable to complete a dive. Because the basic procedures and skills are not even used by many in clear warm water.

So, they are not transferable.

But I agree that a little mentoring by the locals goes a long way whenever you are transferring form one environment to another. For example, in my recent trip to Florida, the locals were kind enough to suggest that I put on some sun block. That helped a lot.

 

[dave4868]

A good o/w course will stress that it is an introduction and a license to continue to learn, and it is up to the diver to choose to continue and invest more time and money or not. If you have no idea whether diving will end up being for you or not, would you really be willing to spend an extra 500 bucks on a longer/more thorough course to find out?

Plus, that "license to learn" that Open Water training provides makes it safe enough for most divers to just use informal mentoring to gain additional open water experience and skills as needed. Many divers do it that way.

No further courses needed usually....for open water.

Informal mentoring has the advantage over an open water specialty course of being more individually tailored to the diver's circumstances, needs and abilities.

This assumes that the diver continuously self-evaluates as suggested by their original open water training....

This wouldn't be 'Cold Water Diver' for me. This is really the 'Monterey Diver' specialty. I don't need or want Drysuit and the only time there is rough surf here is when it is not safe to dive.

I find that the training you get in most places BARELY gives a new diver the skill set they need to dive in that area. The moment you go to a different environment you need training necessary for the conditions. This training is typically comparable to the basic training. So now that I'm diving in Ontario, I'm taking a full training course for Ontario. If I moved to Monterey, I'd re-certify for diving in Monterey.

Personally, I think a low-cost, minimally adequate specialty course is preferable to a more expensive comprehensive course that may include unnecessary or superfluous info.

Compared to taking a course, self-study with mentoring can really provide a more solid learning base for a thinking diver since it's cemented primarily with experience.

The OP brought up many good points in all his posts in this thread, but asked "should" a more comprehensive cold water course be offered?

A better question might be "Would it be helpful to a lot of people?" For some people, not many. Most are doing fine just through experience, from what I've seen.

His excellent original post and the replies of others in this thread should be enough to alert new divers to what they should consider in cold water diving. Follow that with some informal mentoring and experience and most people would be well-prepared and adequately skilled as they continue to learn about it.

The only reason I see for now just taking the training over again is cost. Yes, some of the training will be similar to training you already had. But practice never hurts. For me, what seems worse: losing a few hundred dollars or losing my life/health?

Safety may be better ensured by informal mentoring and experience....because over-confidence may be less. Just my bias....

I can see how you might not want to go right back to OW but you should just retake AOW as this will add the specialties the local diver instructors feel you need.

The only exception I have found to this rule is that if you were trained in Norway, Monterey, Lake Ontario, etc. then go to the Caribbean you don't need full re-training.

Diving specialty certifications at the open water level are highly overrated and often unnecessary, IMHO.

Most people can just continue to increase their knowledge and experience level as needed just by diving, plain and simple.

Dave C