Question Sidemount or backmount doubles?
- Thread starter Cheizz
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Sort of?
That doesn't affect redundancy though. In terms of it being a truly independent system then sidemount gives you no single point of failure. Conversely it's not really redundant because you are intending to use both systems equally, so it's kind of complicated.
Both have their advantages and disadvantages but I personally treat them as equals in terms of "Redundancy" and instead prefer to consider which one is a better configuration for where I am physically.
A single isolator failure can take out the whole system with doubles. That failure is essentially impossible to have happen during a dive, but theoretically it's possible.
True, I suppose if the bonnet nut failed and blew out the isolator, that would cause total gas loss. But yeah, I get it, you get it.
I miss my straight bar doubles, I had to install isolators when I started teaching.
This is why I personally dive with a 120 or 102 Steel along with a back mounted 19cf Pony tank. My Pony is not in any way a part of my dive or gas management plan. It is there because I typically dive solo when hunting and my Pony is there for ME...and only ME in case of a catastrophic primary system failure. My Pony is 100% redundant. It is fully charged and has a totally separate SPG on a 24 in HP hose that is tied to my Pony's 2nd stage....
This is what works for me......and I am in no way ever going to say what is best for others. The people on this forum who constantly preach to others about what is best for them is nauseating. Cheers....
This is what works for me......and I am in no way ever going to say what is best for others. The people on this forum who constantly preach to others about what is best for them is nauseating. Cheers....
broncobowsher
Contributor
Depends on the failure. But it is possible to have un-usable gas on you with sidemount. Doubles you can completely shut one regulator completely off and have all of the air at your disposal.
But sidemount will let you be an idiot, suck one dry, and if you are not a complete Darwin candidate still have something left in the other side.
There is no perfect answer. So many 'what-if' (Speaking of which, Randall Monroe anounced his new book 'What if 2' today, and will be available in September. Sorry, my inner nerd is coming out.)
The only place where sidemount is a clear winner - narrow caves. Beyond that, it works fairly well. But not a one and done winner at everything.
If you have the option, try both. Either can be great, or suck.
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@broncobowsher flat caves, not necessarily narrow ones. Bedding planes "flate"=sidemount, fissure cracks "narrow"=backmount
It’s great that I don’t have to take your opinion seriously, Grant.
Dive either backmount or sidemount as you want to, just practice all skills and drills so you are competent and efficient.
A reason for people leaving the sport is statements of absolute limitation like “SM still shouldn’t be the primary system for most people.”
OP
Cheizz
Contributor
Haha I love all your comments.
Just for context/clarification:
1. working on my breathing and getting that SAC rate down has always been one of the first things to work on (next to trim, buoyancy control, efficient propulsion, safety).
2. I am the kind of guy that wants as rich as possible a view on a matter (or a choice) way before I really have to make that choice.
3. Thinking about this stuff (configurations, pros and cons, the gear that goes with it, the research) is part of the fun for me; so even if it's not yet 'relevant' for me now (in the strictest sense of the word), I still find this discussion valuable.
4. When it comes to the choice of SM vs BM, most cons of SM are related to getting in and out of the water; most cons of BM seem to relate to valve drills. Since I will need training and practice in either (SM or BM) and both (donning/doffing and safety drills, air sharing, etc.), that investment is not something that makes me sway either way (my philosophy: whatever you decide to go for, you need to be proficient and efficient at it - this goes for single tank recreational diving in 10 m of water too). For me, training and proper setup is a given, not a variable.
5. In my area and club, I have the opportunity to try out both, which I will definitely do.
What still intrigues me: backmount seems to be the standard/default. Many of you say that it is (explicitly or implicitly), though to me it still isn't clear why. Just because it's around for longer? Sidemount is still viewed by most as that specialist tool for a specific job. I understand that sidemount was developed out of necessity in restricted passages. But I like to look at configurations in the sense of what they actually are/offer in terms of opportunities rather than what they were originally designed for. I like to look at their features and properties, not their history.
And lastly... a '102' in all-of-the-world-outside-the-US speak that's something like a 15L tank, I think?
Just for context/clarification:
1. working on my breathing and getting that SAC rate down has always been one of the first things to work on (next to trim, buoyancy control, efficient propulsion, safety).
2. I am the kind of guy that wants as rich as possible a view on a matter (or a choice) way before I really have to make that choice.
3. Thinking about this stuff (configurations, pros and cons, the gear that goes with it, the research) is part of the fun for me; so even if it's not yet 'relevant' for me now (in the strictest sense of the word), I still find this discussion valuable.
4. When it comes to the choice of SM vs BM, most cons of SM are related to getting in and out of the water; most cons of BM seem to relate to valve drills. Since I will need training and practice in either (SM or BM) and both (donning/doffing and safety drills, air sharing, etc.), that investment is not something that makes me sway either way (my philosophy: whatever you decide to go for, you need to be proficient and efficient at it - this goes for single tank recreational diving in 10 m of water too). For me, training and proper setup is a given, not a variable.
5. In my area and club, I have the opportunity to try out both, which I will definitely do.
What still intrigues me: backmount seems to be the standard/default. Many of you say that it is (explicitly or implicitly), though to me it still isn't clear why. Just because it's around for longer? Sidemount is still viewed by most as that specialist tool for a specific job. I understand that sidemount was developed out of necessity in restricted passages. But I like to look at configurations in the sense of what they actually are/offer in terms of opportunities rather than what they were originally designed for. I like to look at their features and properties, not their history.
And lastly... a '102' in all-of-the-world-outside-the-US speak that's something like a 15L tank, I think?
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