stefo2
Contributor
So if the boat was anchored, why couldn't you and the DM hold on to the anchor line to decompress?
So what should have happened?
- Thread starter markrodg
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fnfalman
Contributor
Anybody who has 50-logged dives may not be as experienced as, say, a 1000-dives diver, but hardly new or inexperienced.
Currents pick up out of nowhere, and this is where the awareness of one's surrounding comes in handy. Next time pay attention to see if the kelps, grass, sea fans, etc., start to fluctuate and begin to lay down. That's a sign of current picking up and you need to start heading to the anchor line so that you won't drift too far away.
Also, pay attention to your dive computer. You should not have gone down so long on the second dive to the point where the computer is penalizing you with extra long safety stop. Next time, when your computer alarms' going off, you call the dive and head back. Either your buddy comes with you, or go without your buddy. It's your life that's on the line.
It was messed up of the DM who was sticking by you to leave you by yourself.
I don't understand why the boat did not pull anchor and come get you if you had drifted that far away. Maybe you were too close to the fishing boats?
Just keep in mind that United States diving is a hair different than Caribbean or other typical tropical resort diving. The typical resort diving joints cater toward every needs and whims of the vacation diver, to the point of playing nanny. Since that the United States; even the great Florida warm water areas, isn't a typical resort diving vacation spot, the shops and boats tend to operate differently and the divers tend to be more self-reliant and self-sufficient.
For example, this last dive boat I went out, a young fellow who lives in California but never dived here. He was strictly a warm water vacation diver. He went up to the boat and laid down his gears (3-bags worth of stuff - all for 1-day dive but that's another story) and told the deck hands that, "These are my gears." and promptly walked up the boat. A couple of us pulled him over the side and told him that the deck hands are not going to schlepp his gears for him. They'd give him assistance but won't carry all his gears for him. He got all indignant and said, "This is how they do it in the Bahamas." Well, this ain't the Bahamas, this is SoCal.
So the moral of the story is to talk with the local divers more about what are the expectations.
Currents pick up out of nowhere, and this is where the awareness of one's surrounding comes in handy. Next time pay attention to see if the kelps, grass, sea fans, etc., start to fluctuate and begin to lay down. That's a sign of current picking up and you need to start heading to the anchor line so that you won't drift too far away.
Also, pay attention to your dive computer. You should not have gone down so long on the second dive to the point where the computer is penalizing you with extra long safety stop. Next time, when your computer alarms' going off, you call the dive and head back. Either your buddy comes with you, or go without your buddy. It's your life that's on the line.
It was messed up of the DM who was sticking by you to leave you by yourself.
I don't understand why the boat did not pull anchor and come get you if you had drifted that far away. Maybe you were too close to the fishing boats?
Just keep in mind that United States diving is a hair different than Caribbean or other typical tropical resort diving. The typical resort diving joints cater toward every needs and whims of the vacation diver, to the point of playing nanny. Since that the United States; even the great Florida warm water areas, isn't a typical resort diving vacation spot, the shops and boats tend to operate differently and the divers tend to be more self-reliant and self-sufficient.
For example, this last dive boat I went out, a young fellow who lives in California but never dived here. He was strictly a warm water vacation diver. He went up to the boat and laid down his gears (3-bags worth of stuff - all for 1-day dive but that's another story) and told the deck hands that, "These are my gears." and promptly walked up the boat. A couple of us pulled him over the side and told him that the deck hands are not going to schlepp his gears for him. They'd give him assistance but won't carry all his gears for him. He got all indignant and said, "This is how they do it in the Bahamas." Well, this ain't the Bahamas, this is SoCal.
So the moral of the story is to talk with the local divers more about what are the expectations.
Ana
.
Hopefully you enjoyed your dives, at least until the end of the 2nd one. I think what should've happened has to do with the statement
Now this may be outside of the subject but what is this "added penalty" from the computer you guys speak off?
These are non deco dives correct? you have a safety stop that is nice to do, but is not mandatory. Any "added" time to the safety stop sounds like an obligation, which makes it a deco stop, isn't it?
Is this a super-size-safety-stop? I like it. In addition to deco or non-deco dives we can now do SSSS dives... is there a certification for that one?
Even if you are a new diver, you can't just let others "take" you.
Now this may be outside of the subject but what is this "added penalty" from the computer you guys speak off?
These are non deco dives correct? you have a safety stop that is nice to do, but is not mandatory. Any "added" time to the safety stop sounds like an obligation, which makes it a deco stop, isn't it?
Is this a super-size-safety-stop? I like it. In addition to deco or non-deco dives we can now do SSSS dives... is there a certification for that one?
Doing a dive after such a short surface interval is not the best situation, it decreases your NDL and safety margin. You mentioned that you said something to the DM and captain, and when they decided it was ok, you should have called the dive and not gone. If the boat was anchored why didn't the DM bring the group back to the anchor line to do the safety stop? Only he can answer that, maybe less than stellar nav skills? There are Dive Operators that are just in it for the money, and others that want to make sure you have a safe and enjoyable experience, unfortunately, it sounds like you had the former.
OK, so it was not a drift dive, but rather a dive with current. That means the answer to to the question as to why you did not do your stop on the mooring line is a navigation issue--you did not get back to it as you concluded the dive. A moored boat is the starting point and the ending point of a dive, and it is the responsibility of the diver to get back to it.
In my Keys diving experiences, there has not been a DM in the water. It is therefore the responsibility of the individual divers to get back, and many of them do not have the navigation skills it takes. In your case, there apparently was a DM in the water, which makes me wonder why he did not have the navigation skills to get back to the boat.
So what should have happened? Leaving the issue of whether or not you should have done the second dive, here is what should happen if you find yourself in the middle of a similar situation in the future.
1. You should have the navigation skills needed to find your way back to the boat, even if there is a DM with you who can't. Before you do any more such diving, acquire these skills.
2. Be aware of the limits of the NDLs of your computer throughout the dive. If it is telling you that you are running out of no deco time, then you need to start your ascent. You can do that early on if you think it will be an issue. You will be surprised what a difference staying a few feet above the fray will make. If you need to get shallower, get shallower. Don't let others draw you into trouble. Communicate your needs to your buddy so that he or she can join you.
In my Keys diving experiences, there has not been a DM in the water. It is therefore the responsibility of the individual divers to get back, and many of them do not have the navigation skills it takes. In your case, there apparently was a DM in the water, which makes me wonder why he did not have the navigation skills to get back to the boat.
So what should have happened? Leaving the issue of whether or not you should have done the second dive, here is what should happen if you find yourself in the middle of a similar situation in the future.
1. You should have the navigation skills needed to find your way back to the boat, even if there is a DM with you who can't. Before you do any more such diving, acquire these skills.
2. Be aware of the limits of the NDLs of your computer throughout the dive. If it is telling you that you are running out of no deco time, then you need to start your ascent. You can do that early on if you think it will be an issue. You will be surprised what a difference staying a few feet above the fray will make. If you need to get shallower, get shallower. Don't let others draw you into trouble. Communicate your needs to your buddy so that he or she can join you.
vinegarbiscuit
Contributor
Sounds like this dive was a hell of a learning experience for you! I think a few things went pear-shaped - partly on account of the dive operation, and some just down to plain old inexperience (and everyone on this board has been there!)
1). The fact that a neighboring boat was chumming would have been enough for me to sit out the next dive. Chum + divers = potential for nasty things to happen. I'm surprised the dive operation allowed divers to get into the water at that site. Better to pick another site - although chum sure does carry, so maybe not even another site would have done the trick. Unless it was in Cuba.
2). It would be nice if the dive profile planned by the captain/DM was foolproof, but hey - look upon it as evidence that you can't count on anyone to keep you safe when diving except you. Sad, but true. During the SI, use the planning function on your computer to get an idea of the profile you can dive. I do it a couple of times during the SI - it's also interesting to see how your profile changes as your SI gets longer. That way, you can use the information to determine the profile of your next dive. You'll know if you should stay a bit shallower , or whether you'll have to make dive #2 a shorter one, or whatever. (As a fellow Suunto computer-owner, I can tell you that you'll usually have to follow a more conservative profile than everyone else anyway.) You may even decide not to do the dive at all. Let your buddy and the DM know the profile of your second dive, especially if it differs from the profile outlined in the captain/DM's dive# briefing - whether the DM is in the water with the divers or not.
3). The anchor line is your friend. if you have a chance to perform a safety stop on the line - especially in the Keys, where currents can be strong and unpredictable - do so.
4). There will be occasions when you don't have access to an anchor line for performing your ascent - maybe your boat will not be anchored or you'll overshoot the line for some reason. In this case, a submerged marker buoy (SMB) is a good tool to have. Shooting an SMB is not part of the open water syllabus, which is too bad. If you want to learn to do it, be sure to get guidance from an instructor/experienced user, as there are all sorts of ways one can get into trouble on one's own!
Good luck, and I hope your next dives are infinitely better.
1). The fact that a neighboring boat was chumming would have been enough for me to sit out the next dive. Chum + divers = potential for nasty things to happen. I'm surprised the dive operation allowed divers to get into the water at that site. Better to pick another site - although chum sure does carry, so maybe not even another site would have done the trick. Unless it was in Cuba.
2). It would be nice if the dive profile planned by the captain/DM was foolproof, but hey - look upon it as evidence that you can't count on anyone to keep you safe when diving except you. Sad, but true. During the SI, use the planning function on your computer to get an idea of the profile you can dive. I do it a couple of times during the SI - it's also interesting to see how your profile changes as your SI gets longer. That way, you can use the information to determine the profile of your next dive. You'll know if you should stay a bit shallower , or whether you'll have to make dive #2 a shorter one, or whatever. (As a fellow Suunto computer-owner, I can tell you that you'll usually have to follow a more conservative profile than everyone else anyway.) You may even decide not to do the dive at all. Let your buddy and the DM know the profile of your second dive, especially if it differs from the profile outlined in the captain/DM's dive# briefing - whether the DM is in the water with the divers or not.
3). The anchor line is your friend. if you have a chance to perform a safety stop on the line - especially in the Keys, where currents can be strong and unpredictable - do so.
4). There will be occasions when you don't have access to an anchor line for performing your ascent - maybe your boat will not be anchored or you'll overshoot the line for some reason. In this case, a submerged marker buoy (SMB) is a good tool to have. Shooting an SMB is not part of the open water syllabus, which is too bad. If you want to learn to do it, be sure to get guidance from an instructor/experienced user, as there are all sorts of ways one can get into trouble on one's own!
Good luck, and I hope your next dives are infinitely better.
Don't be so hard on yourself... you already analyzed the series of events... it's logical to trust leaders, until we discover they are not!
Understood.
So you knew your RDP and they didn't..good for you! If you look closely at the basic RDP you'll see that a 60 minute surface interval is sufficient, in most cases, to go on Dive #2.
There's a very large "Shark lobby" which quite rightly is trying to protect sharks against mass murder, finning and other practices. However much you hear that most sharks are harmless to divers, it doesn't mean you have to feel comfortable with frenzied sharks all around you because of the chum. If you don't want to do a dive, don't do it. Even the greatest legends of Scuba Diving have sometimes opted to "sit this one out".
Before you get in the water, yes. Afterwards trust your training, not your instincts.
Next stop SMB training! Yes, find a recreational instructor with an SMB or Drift Dive specialty rating otherwise all tech instructors (DSAT/TDI/IANTD, etc) should teach you well.
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paddler3d
Guest
I wouldn't worry that much about the lines from the fishermen. I'd worry more about the line that are one the wreck.
That is what knives and shears are for!
I'd be aware of you you may drift into their lines or now their lines may drift into you, but that is about it.
One of my most memorable dives was a night dive last year on the Duane. We got out there around 10:30pm. There were fishermen moored to the stern and the mid-section of the boat. The only mooring buoy left was on the bow. The fishermen were chumming. The way the current was running, a very mild current, virtually slack, was from the bow to the stern.
Sadly, no big fish. We saw one massive nurse shark off the bow in the sad. All the night creatures were out.
It was an amazing dive. The hang on the way back up was a bit unnerving, but that was about it.
I think I wann get a boat and take people out for a nice 100' dive (cuz it'll be short) then throw them in the water a few minutes later to 70' (cuz that'll be REAL SHORT)... hell I could run like 4 or 5 charters a day that way.... I get the money, you get screwed... then when those buggers don't get on the boat fast enough I'll start talkin about sharks!
how much total time in the water did ya get maybe 45 min's - an hour?
These guys were just pushing you thru cuz they knew you wouldn't just fork over the cash and walk away never to ask them for anything in return for it. They gave you as little as the could for as much money as they could get away with....
You have been screwed Mark... did they at least give ya a smootch?
Granny Scuba
Contributor
Please elaborate on above !
If MarkRodg had made a safety stop on a SMB as you suggested would this have kept him from drifting so far from the boat.? Or just allowed the boat to see where he was drifting?
Please elaborate on the advantage of MarkRodg making his safety stop on a SMB.
I started a thread titled “Safety stop anchor double as a sausage"? The goal of my thread was to understand what I really needed and to try to reduce purchases and reduce baggage by buying things that could be used in mutli-purpose ways.
I am still not sure exactly what I should have bought, but I went ahead and purchased a 6’ safety sausage.
Also when you say SMB do you mean Surface Marker Buoy or Submersible Marker Bag? I understand that they are two different animals with the bouy being inflated prior to the dive and the bag being inflated at depth during the dive.
Thank you !
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