Some Dive shops just don't work with me

[SCUBARACER]

Ok, so far I have gone to like 6 dive shops in my area (AUSTIN, TX), out of all of the ones I have gone in to service has been very SUB PAR, except for one.

They all want LIST, and won't even begin to deal, or come down a tad, and the mention of internet is like leave if you don't like the prices..

I was in one, which conveniently is the closest one, nicest guy helped me (owner), and he was willing to come as close as possible to internet prices...He didn't come very close, but his service, and eagerness to work on the price sold me, so I ordered a Uwatec Smart Pro Comp, and got a DS4 1st stage, and Zeagle/Apeks regulator that he still had in stock, the rest such as bag, better knife, and lil things like that will be from online.

But back to the subject, why is it that every diveshop I went in to except one they were total A**holes!!!

Any comments?

 

[Dee]

Racer...there has been lots of discussions in the past on this subject. As a new member you may not have gotten around to them all so here's a link to get you started...

Local dive shop discussion

 

[Rick Murchison]

It is exteremely difficult (no, it's beyond that - it is impossible) to provide a facility and all the trappings, one-on-one information, education and help at internet prices.
It is extremely irritating to be "pumped" for hundreds of dollars worth of information that you've taken years to learn, to be used for hours of your time providing free information and advice, to give a free class in equipment features and selection and then be told, essentially, that your time and your expertise are worthless - you should be selling at the same margins as someone who doesn't provide any of these things. Those who are able to persevere cheerfully will make the occasional sale, but after being burned over and over and over and over most tend to lose their sense of humor.
The internet will eventually force either the complete closing of retail shops or the billing for the salespersons time - they must be allowed to pay the rent and buy groceries.
Traditionally, information has been sold in the margins - that is, included in the price of the good. The internet is forcing a separation of information sales and margins on goods. It is a bitter pill for the person trying to make a living, for "service before and after the sale" is still expected - but at "no service ever" prices.
An "internet equivalent" dive shop would have a counter behind which there is a stock clerk whose sole capacity is to get a box off a shelf and exchange it for your money. No show room, no repair shop on premise, no airfills, no pool, no classes, nobody who actually knows anything, no trying on for fit, no actual samples - just pictures. All information gathering is up to you, and all mistakes are yours.
Rick

 

[jbd]

Excellent post Rick. I don't own a dive shop but used to own my business several years ago so I understand well what you are saying.

Internet sales are to LDS as Wal-Mart is to many mom & pop businesses. Essentially a death nell.

Very high sales volume allows for low margins and still make a profit. For many LDS in non coastal tourist areas they are glad to see 5 to 8 potential customers walk through the door on any given day.

I think scubaracer has run into several LDS's that are tired of trying to compete.

 

[metridium]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the LDS who treats his/her customers fairly and is still having a hard time making it. But having a poor attitude toward the customer and demanding full MSRP certainly isn't going to help them survive. Would YOU want to do business with them?

Can't speak for others, but all the "internet dive shops" I do business with are established bricks-n-mortar shops with strong online/telephone/mailorder presences. They're still providing all the services you mentioned; they've just expanded their sales territory without expanding the pool of those seeking instruction or airfills. None of the people I've dealt with are internet-only stock clerks, but general employees or managers who help with whatever needs doing.

Instead of driving the LDS out of business, maybe this new economic model will lead to more realistic pricing of instruction and fills, who knows? I, for one, am willing to pay commensurate prices for high-quality instruction, but I'm not going to pay an extra $500.00 for a drysuit with no added value whatsoever.

As I said, there are certain LDS who really try to help their customers, and I send as many referrals, fills, service work, and minor purchases their way as I can.

As for the jerks, liars, and frauds I've had the displeasure of meeting, well, they can't go out of business fast enough to suit me.

 

[chris_b]

Originally posted by Rick Murchison
...An "internet equivalent" dive shop would have a counter behind which there is a stock clerk whose sole capacity is to get a box off a shelf and exchange it for your money. No show room, no repair shop on premise, no airfills, no pool, no classes, nobody who actually knows anything, no trying on for fit, no actual samples - just pictures. All information gathering is up to you, and all mistakes are yours.
Rick

Just curious, does such a store actually exist? I thought all of the places that sell on the internet are actually physical stores that just happen to have branched out into online sales.

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by Dee
Racer...there has been lots of discussions in the past on this subject. As a new member you may not have gotten around to them all so here's a link to get you started...

Local dive shop discussion

And for balance, click here

 

[fredk]

Great post Rick, you are absoulutley right. If our manufacturers don't stop selling thses online people gear there will soon be no place to get air fills,courses etc. Most people don't have a clue just how high the operating expenses are for a dive shop, even the smallest shop. We actually(here in my area anyways) loose money on o.w. courses because pool costs are so high, our only chance to break even is if the students buy their basic gear from us. It's getting tougher all the time with everybody buying online. You have to compare apples to apples when purchasing not just price but after sales service etc. We can't get too excited about servicing gear bought online.

 

[Dee]

Yes Chris...unfortunately, that's more the norm than the exception. One that I know about personally is Divers Direct.

On a trip to Florida we decided to go to their shop. One of the guys with us had placed an order with them before the trip and had a question. The catalog we had been receiving (that should have been the tip-off) had some really neat stuff in it so we invisioned a really cool place to shop and our friend could talk to someone who could help him. What we got was a huge warehouse with a very small showroom...about the size of a large bedroom. On display was a few dive lights, t-shirts, about what you would find in a very small dive shop, but there were catalogs everywhere. After about 15 minutes someone finally came from the back...we could see the warehouse interior through the clear vinyl split curtain. Someone in our group asked some questions about split fins but the 'clerk' knew nothing, just handed her a catalog! We were beginning to get the message so we started asking questions about their regulators and BC's, RX masks...anything we could think of that would require some knowledge of the merchandise. The young man had no clue. He finally told us he was a fork lift driver and was told to see what we wanted! The manager wasn't available nor was anyone from Custome Service.

Needless to say we left empty handed and with a new education about customer service from these type places. Others may be different but this was our personal experience.

Alot of the online dive shops are in fact brick and mortor businesses just like the one in your home town. They've just decided to use the internet as a way to increase their business. Those are the ones I don't mind doing business with if my LDS can't help me. My LDS(s) always get the chance at my money first.

About the only thing I consistantly buy online is camera equipment which isn't available anywhere, much less my LDS!

 

[Diversauras]

Whether the internet dive shops maintain physical dive shops is or should be irrelavent. If they are running an efficient business the internet part would be set aside as a seperate profit center and would not necessairly share in the physical overhead beyond the warehouse.

I have worked in several shops and been around many more. I do think that the shops should at least try to explain why the internet is "cheaper" seeming, the services provided by the shop, the free advice and sharing of years of experience, etc.

I would also add that if someone bought through the net then they should not be allowed to have repairs and maintenance done in a shop, since it is the shop that has to stock the tens of thousands of dollars worth of piece parts needed to do the repairs (this is partially driven by minimum order quantities), yet did not benefit from the sale which is the only clear profit part of the mix.