Something's not right...

[Coogeeman]

What do you think?

OW students (certified to 18m or 60ft) are always keen to get out on a boat trip, especially if they haven't done one during the course, and rightfully so. But, and this perplexes me, neither the dive shop nor the boat operators seem to care about the depth that they take them to.

I see it all the time. Only last week I was witness to 5 newly qualified divers being taken to a spot where the minimum depth was 22m (71ft)! On this occasion this was their 5th dive, the four others being the open water course.

It must confuse the hell out of them because they just get through a course where they are told that the recommended depth is 18m or 60ft and straight after qualification they are diving a lot deeper. The thing is because the dive shops are saying its OK by not saying anything the newbie’s don’t question it. They trust what they are being booked into because the guy booking them in has more experience than they do therefore it must be Ok.

Something’s not right somewhere.

Coogeeman

 

[ScubaCollin]

i went to 80 feet on my 5th dive, but I only went because I felt confident in myself.

 

[miketsp]

..snip..
I see it all the time. Only last week I was witness to 5 newly qualified divers being taken to a spot where the minimum depth was 22m (71ft)! On this occasion this was their 5th dive, the four others being the open water course.

It must confuse the hell out of them because they just get through a course where they are told that the recommended depth is 18m or 60ft and straight after qualification they are diving a lot deeper. The thing is because the dive shops are saying its OK by not saying anything the newbie’s don’t question it.

They're qualified. The decision is theirs. The recommended limit is just that - a recommended limit.
However that said, I know a lot of operators that won't take a basic OW on a dive beyond 30m until they've seem him dive shallower and done their own evaluation.

A lot of other factors besides depth can make a dive difficult.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Are you in a tourist destination?

My local area is not a popular tourist dive destination. Some of the operators up here require an AOW card in order to go on trips where the objective is below 60 feet. A number of others want to see you dive with someone they know before they will let you on the boat. These guys generally don't even ask for your card.

The tourist destinations I've been to seem to take the tourists to any destination without looking at either their card or their skills.

 

[mweitz]

My first dive out of "school" was a 40' dive in the lagoon. I think you need to emphasize what type of dive you want. I was clear that I was a new diver, this was my first dive and that I wanted a beginner dive. My dive was half divers and half snorkelers if that gives you any idea. My next dive was out of the lagoon, 74’ and I was 10 – 15 feet above everyone else. I think you are either a beginner or advanced in some places…

Mark

 

[Xanthro]

It's up to the diver to decide what kind of dives he or she will do. Why should a boat operator decide?

Personally, I find the opposite to be worse. In Maui, a DM for one of the tour operators asked if I wanted to go on an advanced dive, this is because he saw me dive and could evaluate skill.

Due to a mix up at their office, I ended up not diving as they booked me for the wrong day and dive, and when I showed up for the dive, the boat was full, and my name wasn't on it. During my discussions with the office, they said, "Well, we normally require 25 lifetime dives for that trip and you don't have that many." Putting aside the fact that that has no bearing on their booking mistake, I pointed out to them that their own DM had asked me to go on the dive, and which did they think was a better indication, their own DM's judgement, or some set number of "lifetime" dives.

I'm ranting now. Point is, 60 feet isn't some magical number when OW explode if they go past it.

Boat operators have to cater to a number of different divers skills on the same boat. You wouldn't get many advanced divers to go on boat trips where the bottom was never greater than 60 feet. Plus, there is some good in mixing new and experienced divers, as hopefullly, the new divers get to learn from the more experienced ones.

If someone feels comfortable going to a depth, that is what is really most important, as long as the jump in depth isn't something outrageous enough to generate a liability issue for the charter. Just as taking someone on their 5th dive to 120 feet.

Xanthro

 

[Northeastwrecks]

It's up to the diver to decide what kind of dives he or she will do. Why should a boat operator decide?

Personally, I find the opposite to be worse. In Maui, a DM for one of the tour operators asked if I wanted to go on an advanced dive, this is because he saw me dive and could evaluate skill.

Due to a mix up at their office, I ended up not diving as they booked me for the wrong day and dive, and when I showed up for the dive, the boat was full, and my name wasn't on it. During my discussions with the office, they said, "Well, we normally require 25 lifetime dives for that trip and you don't have that many." Putting aside the fact that that has no bearing on their booking mistake, I pointed out to them that their own DM had asked me to go on the dive, and which did they think was a better indication, their own DM's judgement, or some set number of "lifetime" dives.

I'm ranting now. Point is, 60 feet isn't some magical number when OW explode if they go past it.

Boat operators have to cater to a number of different divers skills on the same boat. You wouldn't get many advanced divers to go on boat trips where the bottom was never greater than 60 feet. Plus, there is some good in mixing new and experienced divers, as hopefullly, the new divers get to learn from the more experienced ones.

If someone feels comfortable going to a depth, that is what is really most important, as long as the jump in depth isn't something outrageous enough to generate a liability issue for the charter. Just as taking someone on their 5th dive to 120 feet.

Xanthro

I would find the booking error very annoying, as well as their excuse. Twenty-five lifetime dives. Let's see, I could do five dives per year for five years and qualify. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

My only comment on the 60 foot limit is that, IMHO, diving is easier at shallow depths. There is a wider window for error at 60 than there is at 100.

A diver's comfort level isn't the only factor. Anyone with basic skills can be comfortable at 100 feet when the dive goes well. Its when an emergency arises that I wouldn't want to be depending on that "comfortable" diver. Chances are they won't have the skills needed to handle things.

As for mixing new and experienced divers, its up to the boat who they take. I have no problem talking with new divers before or after a dive. However, I don't dive with them unless its arranged beforehand. If the boat asks once the trip is underway, I would expect my dive to be comped since its no longer something I'm doing for recreation.

 

[ShakaZulu]

Do you ever drive the recommended speed??? It's their lives........

 

[cdiver2]

I agree with xanthrd "they are not going to explode if they go beyond 60'".
Miketsp has it right "there are other factors to consider"
It amazes me that someone can be called OPEN WATER DIVER and yet have never been near open water. I have lost count of the times I have seen divers on a boat for the first time and have no clue of whats going on, I don't blame the divers but I do the training organizations.
Maybe the ratings should be changed. Diver, open water diver and Advanced diver. I do not consider a river or lake open water but if this offends some people then we could add boat diver in between open water and advanced.

 

[jbd]

I do not consider a river or lake open water but if this offends some people then we could add boat diver in between open water and advanced.

I've done a couple of drift dives in Coz and some drift dives in Ky Lake. Coz was easy by comparison. Lakes Huron and Michigan were rougher than some ocean dives I've done although the roughest was in Key Largo. Speaking of Key Largo, that was the second time I experienced surge; the first time was in Ky Lake. If a body of water is big enough to be affected by weather, its open water.