Spearguns

[Stone]

Sara,

I spray it down with the hose (using a nozzle). I try to force some fresh water into the plastic areas on the muzzle and trigger mechanism, but that's about it.

 

[devjr]

Sara, "floaties" are used by blue water freedivers. They are called "trailing lines" and are very popular in Hawaii but not so popular around kelp, like some areas in California. They can be a problem if there is boat traffic.

They are used in three ways, to untether the diver from a big fish and to tie off smaller fish. Also, as a marker.

The standard float line is a Riffe product which consists of a nylon line sealed inside a plastic tube. The standard float is a life guard can. Travelers use the Riffe inflatable.

Hawaians use their float in several ways, to allow the struggling freediver to drop his gun and climb the float line to the surface. They tie off fish to the float to avoid tiger shark attack. They keep track of one another by sighting the float.

This float appliance is for hard core divers, purists.

Unlike my Hawaian buddies, when in waters less than 100 feet deep I use a reel. Otherwise, a float. When SCUBA diving I may have a reel but don't use it except in emergency. Once, I ran out of air, the fish was stuck in a hole, and I triggered the reel to allow me to reach the surface. I tied my lifejacket to the gun, went back to the boat for a fresh tank and extracted the fish. If a person were wearing a BC they would have to carry a CO2 inflatable buoy to accomplish the same thing. A fish is not worth a man's life. Since you're a woman you already know this. We have to learn it.

 

[FredT]

Originally posted by Sara Smiles

How do you maintain it. Silicone on rubber and metal. Rinse each time after salt water. ???

JBL uses a Stainless steel trigger/sear/shaft release in a die cast housing. After a VERY short while this assembly becomes impssible to disassemble and reassemble due to internal corrosion. On the other hand the corrosion doesn't hamper the use of the gun either.

Where we hunt off the mouth of the Mississippi guns have to "overbanded" and otherwise customized to deal with the fish size common off of here. As a result we often put several decades wear on a gun in just a couple years. A "3 band gun" may well have the tension on the release doubled or more from oversize shorter bands on a longer barrel JBL triggers fail by NOT firing. I've never been able to get an Ultimate or Riffe trigger to fail, or known anybody who has managed to fail one either, and there are a couple other high end custom guns that share that honor. Most others fail with the first symptom being an accidental discharge, so IMNSHO the JBL is the "safest" of the "low end" guns. Remember how the gun shoots and trigger pressure necessary for release NOW. Document the trigger pull with a fish scale to if you can do it easily. As the bands "wear" this release pressure will go down slowly. As the sear assembly wears the release pressure will rise sharply. When it is about double what it is new, plan on replacing the trigger or gun soon. Biller and a few others will work fine _as designed & delivered_ but do not "upgrade" shaft or bands on the guns. To do so invites an accidental discharge.

As far as cable goes a "riding rig" is common here, and floats are rare due to the entaglement feature of an oil rig. The first wishbones Riffe used were dacron, a low stretch high wear resistance fiber. Kevlar is just a bit farther up that scale. Going to a kevlar line is good if you are hunting reef. Old wrecks with well corroede plate, oil rigs and large barnacles will all cut kevlar, dacron, nylon, or spectra in a heartbeat. 7 x19 SST cable is necessary for surviving those conditions. The "normal" JBL line rig is some type of quick release or other attachment at the muzzle of the gun, and 2 wraps of line to the tip with a shock element between the release and the anchor. Experience has taught me that if you need to release the line in an emergency underwater (i.e. you shot too big a fish and are well on your way to Cuba) you will NOT be able to climb the gun to get to the line release at the muzzle. The riding rig adds an additional length of line to bring the attachment back to the handle of the gun. The line is terminated onto a short 3/8"or 1/2" diameter 3-strand nylon rope with a SMALL eyeplice and #3 "suicide clip" on the bitter end. To use this the eye splice is draped over the thumb of the left hand and the rope run across the back of the hand, over the heel and through the palm inside the left fist. This provides an absolute anchor for holding on the the fish, and an instant release by just opening your hand. The eyesplice is purposly made too small to fit over the hand so there is no way to get it locked over th wrist. If a shock element is needed/wanted old band material can be spliced into the rope length to provide a "soft" deacceleration to the shaft in case of a miss. The rule around here is to NEVER tie the gun or the shaft to the diver! On a JBL trigger the #3 snap swivel can simply be clipped to the handguard untill needed for a monster fish. I've seen several JBL and Biller guns ruined when a fish took a muzzle terminated line around a piling or other obstruction. The barrels "do" bending poorly. I've also seen divers come back to the boat with just the trigger goup when the fish sheared the trigger group attachment pin.

A long fresh water rinse and soak is all that the trigger needs routinely. A few seconds immersion in hot vinegar once a year will deal with excess interna salt build up.

Enjoy it. Be aware that AJs on the east coast have a problem with worms in the meat. This is generally not a problem on the gulf side.

FT

 

[Sara Smiles]

Hi Devlr,
Thanks for the info on floaties. I know what you mean. My brother had a fish speared and left my sister snorkeling at the surface with it. SHe yells SHARK>SHARK SHARK...... When I heard this I dove off the boat and swam towards her and the blood. She was caught "holding the Bag" so to speak at the surface. I took the bag and sunk it with a weight in the bag to the bottom about 30 ft. due to the shark she said she saw.
My sister was freaked out never seeing a shark...... and was screaming SHARK on the surface quite excitedly. Here I pictured JAWS by her reaction. I look down and its a 4 ft. nurse shark..... ha ha ha
The shark was trying like hell to get into the bag. I just about
died laughing... My sister is from Wisc. and likes to snorkel.


French Bouillabaisse from
HOOK TO TABLE by Vic Dunaway (Florida Sportsman Magazine)

2 lbs. fish fillets
1 doz. lg. shrimp, peeled and veined
1 doz oysters
1 lb. lobster meat
6 small scallops
6 clams in shell
1/2 c. butter
1 lg. onion, minced
1 garlic clove, minced
2 c. fish stock (made from head and bones)
1 lg. ripe tomato, peeled
1 tsp. salt
1 lemon, sliced
1/4 c. red wine

Saute onion in the butter. Add garlic, fish and other seafood (except clams). A large pan or Dutch oven is needed. Saute about 5 minutes until seafood is cooked. Add stock and other ingredients, and simmer 10 more minutes. Serve by spooning portions of each seafood into bowls, then ladling liquid into each bowl. Float a lemon slice on top. Serves Six.

My modification was no oysters, no lemon, more wine, tomatoes, and clams. But you can put what you like in. I used fresh snapper fillets and king mackeral pieces and stock.

Bon Appetite,
Sara Smiles

 

[devjr]

Fred, interesting post. I don't have much experience with JBL guns but I agree with your comments and offer the following. The JBL's that I've looked at had face hardened sears so I don't see how they could wear out. The Riffe sear is not hardened but has a low wear factor due to its design. The parts are a heavy duty version of an original Australian invention and will last about forever. The Biller trigger sear looks weak but is extremely tough and reliable. I have made hundreds of shots with 300-400 pounds traction loaded onto these guns. Examination of the trigger box parts revealed no wear. Actually, I have resorted to using a stone on the biller sear to smooth out the friction surfaces. They just don't break in, let alone wear. The Biller guns, which are made of interlocking plastic and wood, were susceptible to flexing at the joints. Improving the Australian version, Biller added considerable thickness to the plastic sockets, and changed the locations of the screws, making a solid lockup. Of course, the solid wood barrel/stock version, the "limited", needs no improvement of this type.

 

[devjr]

Sara, thanks for the story. When my daughters were small they would snorkel with me in deep waters and see amazing sights. Now that they have reached the age of majority they have developed feminine fears and see a shark behind every rock. Diving is not their destiny.

 

[FredT]

Originally posted by devjr
The JBL's that I've looked at had face hardened sears so I don't see how they could wear out.

The XHD series trigger has a hardened (tungsten carbide) sear, and is the only one used on the rigs now. Prior to that design change the stamped stainless parts took a surface work hardening but also started to cold weld and gall after a bit when overloaded. The "standard" JBL guns still use the stamped trigger parts. The galling is what caused the thing to be impossible to release under load. Wear and corrosion on the die cast stops at the pivot pins also would cause binding which amplified the problem. The JBL trigger design requires the gun to actually be "cocked" a bit farther by the trigger pull before it fires in a slight overcenter design. This makes it quite safe, but subject to some problems if the gun is heavily overbanded. Ulitmate triggers were a true tangential release where trigger pull is independent of the band tension, but they went out of business a few years ago leaving only legacy guns out there. Billers and Riffes have little trigger response to band tension, but it is there.

A "rig gun"often has an extended barrel and /or shaft with an extra band or two of 3/4 or 7/8 rubber added. I prefer the "heavy" Riffe rubber now, and have made my own bands for years. This alows "tuning" each band for maximum load at the notch. As the band "wears in" we trim them back after a few trips to recover full strength. My main gun is a custom bullpup Ultimate about 7' long. The "little gun" takes a JBL 450 shaft with just enough room outside the muzzle for the slider

My ideal gun would be a Riffe style barrel and band arrangement on an Ultimate bullpup trigger group rigged with a left side butt attachment for a riding rig. One of these years I may even have time to build it!

After the bad results we had with Biller guns several years ago nobody will allow an overbanded one on board now. Glad to hear they beefed up the housings though.

FT

 

[devjr]

Straight out of the box, the Biller and JBL guns are pretty darn reliable with med rubber tension. I've never had a problem with say, three 100 pound 9/16 rubbers loaded on a gun, either type. But I only used the JBL off and on for about 5 years, a "beater" gun for SCUBA diving. There were no problems other than the screws corroding in their aluminum sockets. I have looked at JBL guns used by other folks and I do recall seeing some galling on the sear of one gun that was heavily used. Undoubtedly, JBL got more complaints about this when heavy rubber and hardened arrows came into play. The hard steel arrow really does make an increase in long term wear with the JBL, but apparently not with the Biller.

I don't think either gun was designed to be "overbanded" with Riffe gorilla rubber. However, the JBL has a heritage which suggests that it was intended to be such. The trigger group is an ancient design, about 40 years old. It was invented by my friend Jack Prodanovich and sold to the Swimmaster co. Jack's designs called for hardened steel shafts and a hardened sear. That idea was not adopted by JBL until recently. The original sear design by Jack did not use a carbide insert as I understand it. His approach was to braze a piece of chromalloy to the sear face. Later, he went on to manufacture his own gun which used a similar concept.

A few years ago Fred Biller told me that he was testing a sear fabricated from 17-4PH, the same stuff from which the spears are made. I don't know what came of it. Probably overkill. Forgot to mention previously, Biller not only thickened the plastic but increased the wood diameter by about 1/8 inch. The guns are really improved over the Aussie guns. Preece still sells the same gun with no apparent improvements. Biller guns are what I use daily off the VA coast. They aren't appropriate for West Coast yellowtail and white sea bass, never mind black sea bass. I use a Riffe Island when hunting big game, which is seldom anymore. It is overbanded in the sense that the three standard 5/8 rubbers are shortened.

Some of my buddies make their own guns, really interesting and nice workmanship. I use off the shelf stuff but modify them so much they might as well be home made. I can't get into that right now but will mention the spears. I was probably the first to use hardened steel shafts in the Biller(Preece) gun from 1971. Of course, I got the idea from Jack (who himself had learned about it from Guy Gilpatrick). I also borrowed his idea for welding a rudder(similar to sharkfin but wider) to the shaft in lieu of cutting wishbone notches. Later, when Biller took over the US rights to the gun and started making hardened shafts, I took an easier route. I special ordered blank shafts with the sear notch already ground in. That way I no longer had to file a sear notch into hardened steel and could just go directly to the next step.

 

[Sara Smiles]

[Hey guys,
Getting to techy for me. Lost me somehow, but thanks.
All I know is design error, operator error, or material error.
Fortunately i think i have a gun with no design or material
problems, but im not sure about the operator yet.
Anyway, When's Lunch.........
Regards,
Sara Smiles

 

[FredT]

We did get a bit carried away. Boiling it down, to a few points:

1. You got a good one!
2. With your limited band force it'll last a LONG time!
3. See if your gun has the XHD trigger mod. (it'll be printed on the gun) If you do have one you are state of the art for that gun design, and way stronger than you'll ever need.

Now for some unsolicited advice. Many divers find that the JBL "shoots low" for them and requires some Kentucky windage to allow consistant kills. I think this has more to do with the diver's posture, and grip and "sight picture" than the gun. To determine how the gun shoots for you I suggest a bit of practice using a short weighted line tied to flooded milk jugs as targets. The flooded milk jugs are positively buoyant, barely, so they'll float off the bottom. Use as light a weight as practical so the jug will travel with and deaccelerate the shaft. Heavier laundry soap jugs or 5 gallon buckets can be used too if the milk jugs are too light for your bands, but it's a lot harder to get the shaft out of them! A couple dives spent plinking at the floating jugs will do more for your game bag than just going hunting right away. Paint a small circle about the size of a quarter on the side of the jug and practice hitting it from 2 shaft lengths away (one shaft length as it's leaving the gun, and one at free flight). Within a few shots you should have how the gun shoots for you down pat, as well as your loading and line stringing drill. This will give you MANY fewer lost fish, and quicker second shots. Also remember that you do NOT shoot at fish! You shoot at a PARTICULAR SCALE on the fish, preferably one that will allow the shaft to cut the spine or brain. This trick will also help eliminate lost but wounded fish.

Good luck!