Split fin haters... please explain:

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TN, the only way you are going to get the subjectivity out of testing is to not use human subjects and use machines in a controlled environment.
Problem is the shape of the kicks--the shape has to change frequently, to optimize the efficiency for a given desired pace.....there is no machine in existence that could make the required shape changes in kick stroke.

I think what is really needed, is something more like DEMO's in Snow Skiing....Go to Vail, and you can try virtually any ski before buying it....Most skiiers would not even consider buying a ski they had not demoed ( unless they are a novice and don't know enough yet)....
Divers have never demanded demos, so it's really our fault as a group for being so gullible.

If all the reputable fin companies would put out demo fins to there bigger dive shops, so that divers could try all the good fins, my feeling is that the splits would begin to fall out of favor quickly....
 
Dan: you make a good point about DEMO'S. Most companies, including Apollo, offer significant discounts for products placed in a Rental or Demo program. We always encourage divers to try several models of fins before they purchase.
 
We have a great local Dive shop in Palm Beach called Pura Vida.....I think I can get them to open up a REAL DEMO program...They are located about 400 yards from the BHB, so it would be very easy for divers to DEMO all the major brands....I would want the Apollos, the Force Fins, the DiveR's, the Jetfins and Hollis fins, the Quattros, the Cressis, and all the non-sense fins like the fold-up fins and other gimmicky junk that have had glowing reviews in the print dive magazines :)
One of the cool things about BHB, is that you can have still water every day at high tide, but you can also play in strong currents 1.5 hours before high tide or after it...You can swim sideways to the current to simulate how we need to go from the offshore reef to the inshore reef, and you can run against the current, to simulate fighting your way to get back on an anchored boat, or other current issue you care about....BHB is also an easily silted area, so this is great fpr people to see too!
 
As with majority of post, often move in different directions. To the OP, dive what you like. If splits work well for you then no sense in changing. As a disclaimer, I dive Atomic Splits.

These types of discussions tends to remind me of a scene from the movie Sideways. Paul Giamatti and Sandra Oh are discussing cabernet franc and how both don't really like the characteristics of the wine for whatever reason. Thomas Hayden Church takes a sip and exclaims, "Tastes pretty good to me!"

For those of us recreational vacation divers, splits are just fine. I don't dive caves, doubles, or anything remotely resembling tech diving or equipment. I dive rented AL 80's for all of my dives. For me, double tanks means I used one tank on two separate dives. I like to swim slow and check out the reef. My standard dive buddy is my daughter. We are slow swimmers by choice.

Please show some kindness for us routine vacation style divers. Poking fun at flailing unflattering kick styles is in my mind a little mean spirited. The poor guy in YouTube likely has not spent too much time under water, heck he probably can barely swim. Splits are designed expecially with these type of divers in mind. We poor souls who are not highly accomplished and highly skilled divers.

Dan, if I ever make it to Florida and have time I will be sure to let you know and try the freestyle fins. I may even pick up a pair of paddles at some time in the future. For now, I see no reason to change my splits.
 
Ok, that makes it all different. Next time I see a diver rototilling the reef, I'll recognize it's because he/she does not dive much and has really poor skills. (Rototilling frequently seems to involve a great combination of poor situational awareness, poor buoyancy control and a wonderful set of easy kicking split fins.) Since the skills deficiency is obviously not his or her fault, I won't hold the diver accountable or worry about the damage to the reef.
 
We have also seen new divers with Jets, Turtles and Slipstreams along with other non-split fins standing on the reef, to flailing about, and silting the crap out of everything. Fins and diving ability are 2 different subjects. Maybe we should not confuse the two.
 
As with majority of post, often move in different directions. To the OP, dive what you like. If splits work well for you then no sense in changing. As a disclaimer, I dive Atomic Splits.

These types of discussions tends to remind me of a scene from the movie Sideways. Paul Giamatti and Sandra Oh are discussing cabernet franc and how both don't really like the characteristics of the wine for whatever reason. Thomas Hayden Church takes a sip and exclaims, "Tastes pretty good to me!"

For those of us recreational vacation divers, splits are just fine. I don't dive caves, doubles, or anything remotely resembling tech diving or equipment. I dive rented AL 80's for all of my dives. For me, double tanks means I used one tank on two separate dives. I like to swim slow and check out the reef. My standard dive buddy is my daughter. We are slow swimmers by choice.

Please show some kindness for us routine vacation style divers. Poking fun at flailing unflattering kick styles is in my mind a little mean spirited. The poor guy in YouTube likely has not spent too much time under water, heck he probably can barely swim. Splits are designed expecially with these type of divers in mind. We poor souls who are not highly accomplished and highly skilled divers.

Dan, if I ever make it to Florida and have time I will be sure to let you know and try the freestyle fins. I may even pick up a pair of paddles at some time in the future. For now, I see no reason to change my splits.

Willie,
I am not in this thread to hurt feelings of new divers with split fins....Almost the opposite motivation.... I am out on dive charter boats off of Palm Beach nearly every week. I get to see the new divers, the enthusiasm, the committment to gettig this sport "down", and the pure fun they are having....I also see the problems they are having -- problems that hinder their potential for maximum fun......One of the BIGGEST HINDRANCES they all face, is that they have such a hard time moving at "the speed they want to move at" through the water.....So they "thrash harder", and they get closer to the speed they feel they need to stay in the DM led group they are in....As they overcompensate with this thrashing, they forget trim and bouyancy, and single mindedly attempt to keep up with more thrashing.....
The splits respond to the "thrashing". It's a benefit, and a curse. To many, it's a benefit because the new diver, or once every few months diver, can propel themselves down the reef with no need for learning how to kick.....Said another way....they don't, or the instructor does not, have to take the time for learning optimal kicking techniques....

Take 100 instructors, there maybe 50 great ones, 25 ok ones, and 25 that stink. At least 50 of this one hundred is not likely to assist in optimizing the kick techniques--whether they don't want to spend the time( they profit more by teaching less in their minds) , or they just don't know the optimal kicking technique themselves--or they don't really know how to quickly figure out the kicking mistakes of a new diver, and get them to do it the right way....And this is MAJOR... It could be the most complicated and time consuming part of all the skills a new diver is taught. If I wanted to work with a new diver with no kicking skills, I would probably spend 2 hours on techniques, and film them so they have the feedback on watching, then the next day, another 2 hours, and film them, show the improvement, and then get them out in a variety of reef and wreck conditions, and film them using their new techniques, show this later, and then have one final teaching class on the techniques they need to tweak for each environment, or "situational need". ...... This would produce a new diver that kicked correctly, whether with splits, Force Fins, Rockets, or freedive fins....They would in my opinion, gravitate to either the Force Fins if they are wired for the easy propulsion without hip stress unique to Force and splits....or the ease in reverse kicking, etc......or they would gravitate to jet fins if they had plans for tech or cave and scooters --liked frog kick the most, and were very fit......or to Freedive fins if thyey just liked the big amplitude slow kicks without effort, and liked the hip and knew style flutter or dolphing kicks of the freedive fins, and the feel of frog kicks with huge glide between....They would not like the splits, because once you really know how to make a fin do everything, the Splits just are too lacking precision.....The splits took no knowledge or training to begin with, but progress is very limited...
More like a Skier that is given very forgiving beginner skiis, and showed the snow plow....it is easy for anyone, and almost anyone can get good in snow plow in a day or two....however, between the limitation of the snowplow technique ( is horrible in much of the advanced terrain) , and the limitations of the beginner skiis, which you can make many edging mistakes with and still not catch an edge and fall---but these skiis just dont repond "the right way" when you do the right technique--they "kind of respond", and the beginner does not fall so much in the first few hours.....mistakes don't get transmitted as badly to the skiis. They don't get really good, because what they do right does not transmit well either.

I argue for putting the newbie in near racing quality skiis and boots ( not real racing skiis, but good performance skiis), and showing them cristies in to the hill in the first minutes of instruction, and linked cristies, and gettig them to do real skiing --it takes more instruction time, it means more mistakes will be made in the first hour or so by the newbie, but they will actually begin to LEARN. Diving and kicking technique is far more similar than the industry wants to acknowledge.

When I showed the video of poor guy thrashing away with the splits, it was not to hurt him( or those who resemble him), it was to explain that things like this should not happen, that there is a much better way to end up enjoying many diving environments much more ( and dramatically increasing your own safety by becoming a powerful fin swimmer).
This is one reason I offer to let split fin wearers on SB visit here on Palm Beach, and why I will let them try freedive fins, or perhaps even Force Fins if Bob Evans wants to leave a pair or two at Pura Vida, and I will show them the kick shapes and techniques, and let them try this at the BHB Marine Park...no cost to anybody :)
 
Not expecting to change any minds here but suggesting that split fin divers always end up silting up the reef is utterly ridiculous and just propaganda.

Fins have zero to do with people without good bouyancy control or perhaps interest in bouyancy control silting up the reef. I've seen divers with all kinds of fins both split and not, both being unconcerned for the reef and silting it up or running into it, or being two inches off it and not disturbing it. Perhaps your sample set is of a lot of inexperienced people and even experienced people who happen to silt the reef up and happen to have split fins. That does not mean that in the world all split fins cause this.

I've been to plenty of muck diving and reef diving spots around the world and I can hover two inches off it without silting it up. However, I have an interest in it and doing it "right", so I take care to learn good bouyancy control and to have good bouyancy, because hitting the reef is a bad thing in my mind. I've also felt that I have plenty of speed, haven't had a problem with keeping up with others, and felt it was lower impact and easier to extract propulsion. I don't believe that they should eliminate other types, but they have their uses. The only thing I can think of being unable to do is back up, but I do it another way so it doesn't matter.

I fully and wholeheartedly agree that people should not damage the reef or silt up the place and people should recognize and strive for improvement.
 
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I'm gonna say it is the diver and not the fin that "rototillers" the bottom. In this pic you'll see 2 divers. Both are wearing split fins. One is me.

I am Dan's biggest fan, but I got hurt skiing and the Atomic Smokes work for me. I intend to try the DiveR (soft fins however). I have used Jets and USD original blades for decades, but for now the splits serve me well.
 
not sure why I can't post a pic, but you can see more in my photos.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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