Split off discussion of differences in healthcare systems

[Storker]

USA has a very high standard of care for an employed insured patient,

Problem is, the standard isn't quite as good for the unemployed uninsured patient. Which for me, even disregarding the macroeconomic consequences which also should be considered, is downright immoral and inhumane.

 

[BRT]

Problem is, the standard isn't quite as good for the unemployed uninsured patient. Which for me, even disregarding the macroeconomic consequences which also should be considered, is downright immoral and inhumane.

In Norway everybody gets the same care?

 

[Storker]

In Norway everybody gets the same care?

Of course not. As in every other country. Don't be silly. But the care is only weakly linked to socioeconomic status, and the differences aren't fundamental, unlike as it is in countries with a private insurance system.

Just FTR: I've never claimed that our system is perfect. Because God knows it isn't. Far from that. But I truly believe that it - despite its many faults - is far better than a private insurance based system. At least for the majority of the population. And there are some data supporting that view.

 

[taimen]

In Norway everybody gets the same care?

As an outsider i'd say pretty much yes.
They put considerable effort to deliver care to rural areas, and equality in getting higher level specialist care would probably surprise you.

 

[Storker]

the differences aren't fundamental, unlike as it is in countries with a private insurance system.

@BRT , I 'm willing to bet quite a bit that you'll never read a story about someone bankrupting their whole family for treatment, or middle school students trying to raise funding for treatment of their parent's cancer treatment in a single payer healthcare country.

I've read a few such stories from the land of the free and the brave. And those stories truly break my heart, because a minor shouldn't have to worry about their parents' health care costs.

 

[BRT]

@BRT , I 'm willing to bet quite a bit that you'll never read a story about someone bankrupting their whole family for treatment, or middle school students trying to raise funding for treatment of their parent's cancer treatment in a single payer healthcare country.

I've read a few such stories from the land of the free and the brave. And those stories truly break my heart, because a minor shouldn't have to worry about their parents' health care costs.

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I have read those stories too. So far I have not seen it happen. There is no doubt that people declare bankruptcy to avoid paying medical bills.

 

[taimen]

Storker is mostly talking about problems with private insurance based healthcare without universal coverage (there are good working examples of insurance based systems with universal coverage, even the US was about to set up one).
On the other hand I am a proponent of private healthcare providers, which have proven to be effective in setting up services with good availability and customer satisfaction. This works especially well in primary care, which is the usual achilles heel of public provider systems when they face financial constraints. There are many examples of this in Europe, where most countries have universal access to heatlhcare, but with different models. Many of them are not single payer public provider systems like Norway.
Several years ago when I was working in a hospital in New York City I met a Norwegian patient. The Norwegian public heathcare system had sent her there (without co-pay) to get advanced cancer treatment which was not available in Norway at that time.

 

[Storker]

There is no doubt that people declare bankruptcy to avoid paying medical bills.

Meanwhile, in Europe, people won't see medical bills large enough to need them to declare bankruptcy.

 

[BRT]

Storker is mostly talking about problems with private insurance based healthcare without universal coverage (there are good working examples of insurance based systems with universal coverage, even the US was about to set up one).
On the other hand I am a proponent of private healthcare providers, which have proven to be effective in setting up services with good availability and customer satisfaction. This works especially well in primary care, which is the usual achilles heel of public provider systems when they face financial constraints. There are many examples of this in Europe, where most countries have universal access to heatlhcare, but with different models. Many of them are not single payer public provider systems like Norway.
Several years ago when I was working in a hospital in the New York City I met a Norwegian patient. The Norwegian public heathcare system had sent her there (without co-pay) to get advanced cancer treatment which was not available in Norway at that time.

The elephant in the corner is what happens to healthcare worldwide if the US gets their costs down to world average.

 

[KenGordon]

Sounds like it was an administration bullocks

That is exactly what they want people to think. But really that is the intent. Make the UK extremely inhospitable and a complete hassle with vast quantities of nasty bureaucracy to deal with.

If you use the health service to enforce immigration policy and refuse treatment you will kill people.

And when you deport people that have been here legitimately for 50 years:

Windrush : 11 people wrongly deported from UK have died – Sajid Javid
Windrush victim wrongly refused help
Government accused of ‘pandering to far right’ over Windrush deaths